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  1. #11
    Member gpstrucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J515OP View Post
    Weak sale are relative. If you are comparing to Apple products, sure they are weak. But considering all the factors you just took into account then the sales might not be "weak" given the limited distribution and projected targets based on that.
    "Relative sales" are irrelevant and don't support profits or the growth of a product line. It's the bottom line that counts. If MS wants to sell the Surface they need to get it out there where people can get their hands on it and try it out. I would never have bought one if I couldn't have first checked it out hands-on. Considering the price points, I doubt that most of the potential customer base would be willing to buy one without first checking it out.

    The Surface could easily compete with the iPad if it is marketed correctly. The problem I am seeing at the moment is that Apple is kicking Microsoft's arse when it comes to marketing their product. People aren't very likely to buy a new tablet based solely on a tv or internet ad, they are going to be convinced by actually holding it in their hands and seeing WHY it is a better purchase.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator J515OP's Avatar
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    Microsoft may have very modest goals and they may not want to add to the bottom line directly through Surface sales as much as make a statement. This would be similar to Google and Amazon who have ulterior motives for selling their devices (to get people into their ecosystem). While MS is in transition and may end up becoming more like Apple eventually, they are not Apple and do not rely primarily on hardware sales (which then also feed the Apple ecosystem).

    MS doesn't need to directly compete with iPads or Apple but what they do need to do is make sure Windows (their bread and butter) doesn't become irrelevant in a post PC world running on mobile devices. If they can establish Windows as a player in both PC and mobile worlds then they are going to continue to be a dominating OS force. So I think it is relative to their over all goals. If they made 400,000 units and sold 400,000 units in two months then the sales are strong. Maybe they will eventually expand beyond their current constraints but this was not a mistake.

    MS took a specific business approach and their choice was not to mass market the Surface devices. There are a variety of reasons that could have led them to this decision but just because they didn't put it on every retail shelf in America or around the world doesn't mean they are failing. Perhaps they could have sold more and will sell more if they do that but there is also nothing wrong with limiting their sales either. Assuming that the end game is to sell as many Surfaces as quickly as possible is a mistake many people are making in comparing MS and the Surface to other tablet retailers. For that matter Google wasn't the first to ship Android tablets and still has limitations on where you can buy its nexus devices.

    JP
    “Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.” - Albert Einstein

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  3. #13
    Member gpstrucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J515OP View Post
    Microsoft may have very modest goals and they may not want to add to the bottom line directly through Surface sales as much as make a statement. This would be similar to Google and Amazon who have ulterior motives for selling their devices (to get people into their ecosystem). While MS is in transition and may end up becoming more like Apple eventually, they are not Apple and do not rely primarily on hardware sales (which then also feed the Apple ecosystem).

    MS doesn't need to directly compete with iPads or Apple but what they do need to do is make sure Windows (their bread and butter) doesn't become irrelevant in a post PC world running on mobile devices. If they can establish Windows as a player in both PC and mobile worlds then they are going to continue to be a dominating OS force. So I think it is relative to their over all goals. If they made 400,000 units and sold 400,000 units in two months then the sales are strong. Maybe they will eventually expand beyond their current constraints but this was not a mistake.

    MS took a specific business approach and their choice was not to mass market the Surface devices. There are a variety of reasons that could have led them to this decision but just because they didn't put it on every retail shelf in America or around the world doesn't mean they are failing. Perhaps they could have sold more and will sell more if they do that but there is also nothing wrong with limiting their sales either. Assuming that the end game is to sell as many Surfaces as quickly as possible is a mistake many people are making in comparing MS and the Surface to other tablet retailers. For that matter Google wasn't the first to ship Android tablets and still has limitations on where you can buy its nexus devices.

    JP
    You make some good points, but I feel that MS has made a huge marketing mistake with both the Surface and with Windows 8 in general. Perhaps their thinking is exactly as you describe, perhaps not. I don't know. As a long time Linux user I was never a huge Windows fan but have been running 8 on one of my laptops for a while and have come to like and respect it as a very good operating system, and it led me to buy a Surface to compare against my iPads and Android tablets.

    I feel that MS has a great product (not perfect but none are) and they could easily command a respectable and profitable market share in the tablet market if they seriously market the product. Every single person I have shown the Surface to has been impressed by it.

    I personally never said they are failing with the Surface, but I do think they are making a huge mistake in not marketing it better, which could lead to failure in the near future. It makes little sense to put a product on the market you don't intend to sell. No sane company would do that. MS intended and intends to sell the Surface.

    Yes, it's possible the RT was put out just to test the waters (a timid move IMHO) but they do want to get into that product line or they wouldn't have developed the 8 OS or the Surface in the first place. I think MS is moving in the right direction with both the Win 8 concept and the Surface concept, but their lack of aggressive marketing might keep them in third (or fourth) place in the tablet OS market.

  4. #14
    Super Moderator J515OP's Avatar
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    Yep, totally agree. I too have many devices on different OSes and the Surface is a winner. I think most of us here would prefer MS go big ime on this because the reality is that the majority of people have no clue how good this is. There is a good post by a new user saying they came across the Surface by accident and almost passed on it because of the mixed reviews online before getting to try it out in person. Very sad indeed
    “Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.” - Albert Einstein

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  5. #15
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    If MS wants market share they will need to adjust the price plain and simple. I love my RT, will replace it with the more expensive pro but at the end of the day MS will need a piece of the pie (market share) to make it into '14. Windows 8 is not yet the 'boom' MS and other analysts predicted and therefore is not able on its own to drive sales of the surface.

  6. #16
    Super Moderator J515OP's Avatar
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    I disagree with the price argument. Price is not the only way to compete in markets. Given the actual performance and usability of the Surface it is fairly priced and even under priced given the things it can do to other tablets which definitely feel more toy like after using a Surface. Despite the limitations it shares with other tablets based on ARM the Surface RT is still 90% laptop replacement and will fill the laptop needs of the majority of its users. For that plus battery life, form factor, touch screen, build quality and the inclusion of Office, the Surface RT does not need to be priced cheaper to compete. Of course cheaper is always better when spending your own money but nobody is telling Porsche it needs to price its cars like Volkswagen to compete.
    Last edited by J515OP; 01-05-2013 at 07:17 PM.
    “Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.” - Albert Einstein

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  7. #17
    Member badham21's Avatar
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    people don't want to take the risk. so they play it safe with an ipad

  8. #18
    Member xterrapro's Avatar
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    The cult of mac is strong my friend. Price argument is what it is... MS or any win8 MFG for that matter will not be able to take meaningful market share away from Apple unless they have something more than features to draw them in. It's more about gaining market share from the expanding market - not converting mac users. New tablet users need a compelling reason to choose WIN8 and features alone may not be enough. I want to believe in MS tablet's , still have Motion tablets, deployed over 5K in verticals as a Gold Systems Integrator with MS back in the day. I'll own two Pro's in the coming weeks, and hope MS throws away the old playbook and is aggressive enough in the Apple created tablet market to make a difference.

  9. #19
    Senior Member R0bR's Avatar
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    Microsoft isn't only competing against Apple, they also can't undercut other OEM tablet makers and I believe that is their primary concern. It's not like Microsoft couldn't afford to lower the price, they subsidized the Xbox when it first came out and lost money on it.

  10. #20
    Member Series7man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xterrapro View Post
    The cult of mac is strong my friend. Price argument is what it is... MS or any win8 MFG for that matter will not be able to take meaningful market share away from Apple unless they have something more than features to draw them in. It's more about gaining market share from the expanding market - not converting mac users. New tablet users need a compelling reason to choose WIN8 and features alone may not be enough. I want to believe in MS tablet's , still have Motion tablets, deployed over 5K in verticals as a Gold Systems Integrator with MS back in the day. I'll own two Pro's in the coming weeks, and hope MS throws away the old playbook and is aggressive enough in the Apple created tablet market to make a difference.
    Applebots will always be Applebots. Two of my best friends both own iPhone 5's and yet they love my Lumia 920. When I ask them why they went with the iPhone 5, their answer is "well, they must be good because they sell a lot of them". Wow.
    Portable: Surface RT 32GB +64GB with Touch Cover
    Desktop: Home-built gaming PC with Win7 Pro
    Phone: Lumia 920 with WP8

 

 
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