What's new

hooray - a new Fimware!

OP
R

reach

Member
I couldn't agree more wih macmee!
One fact that hasn't even been raised is, that the FW issue is a totally stand-alone-all-MS issue. I have been working for a company where FW issues appeared only occasionally, every few days, in rare constellations with exotic external components connected, sometimes temperature or humidity related. That's indeed a bit tricky.
But this one? It can be reliably reproduced any time, without hundreds of samples, without a hardware lab, without electrostatic equipment. Skilled people do this for breakfast.
 

drolem

Active Member
I have to jump in here because I'm a software developer and I have worked for MS in the past. You people really have no idea what your talking about. Of all the companies I've worked for (Microsoft, ATI, AMD, S3, 3dfx, Intel, and McAfee), Microsoft did FAR more testing than anyone else. Code is frozen for months and changes require several signoffs.
I guess I have to jump in there, too. I'm an embedded systems programmer and MS is one of the 3 household names on my resume. And no, I'm not currently employed by MS, but some of my friends and previous co-workers are.

You all act like MS is some fly by night companies with 3 guys in a garage that purposely don't test their stuff because they don't give a crap about anything or anyone. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have personally been involved in the death march of 60-70 hour weeks leading up to releases. Every night, every engineers test machines (usually there are 3 or 4 of them) run "stress" on nightly builds of the OS which is a test matrix of hundreds of different programs all run at the same time with the sole purpose of trying to kill a machine. Their first job every morning is to debug and find the root cause of any failure from the night before...anywhere within MS.
That is not correct. While nightly builds and automated stress tests are a norm in many divisions, that is not the case "anywhere within MS" -- with MS Hardware being one notable exception. ;)

Furthermore, stress tests usually catch the 'lazy programmer" bugs that shouldn't be there in the first place if the devs had exercised due diligence before check-in.

MS is not careless or negligent.
I have to disagree. As before, there are big differences between different groups. In MS, bugs are often classified as features, or resolved as won't fix without fully understanding their impacts, or without knowing the root cause.

The fact that they had to pull a FW update in itself is a proof that the Surface group was careless and negligent -- that should not have happened. Whether it was due to insufficient testing or due ignoring/underestimating a bug, that I do not know.

In another place, even if a bug wasn't fixed, someone had to do a root cause investigation, show that it can't and won't have any serious user impact, and then, and only then could a bug be closed as a "won't fix". Sometimes a bug may have several different manifestations -- one may not even be noticeable to most, but another may be a major issue, and guesstimating user impacts without fully investigating and understanding the root cause can be error prone.

The problems introduced with the last firmware are unfortunate and will be fixed.
Yes, and they have no choice but to fix it.

Worst case scenario, you restore your factory image which doesn't include any of the updates.
End users cannot undo firmware updates.
 

jrapdx

Member
Hello, I'm new. I've got a SP2 256 GB since November and I love it. I basically use it for programming (Visual Studio), surf on the web, watch some movies and office stuffs... all was perfect before the 10/12.. I was very satisfied. After the December update began the problems.. I remember the strange fan noise during installation of the firmware, after it, the system was not very stable... got same freezing, the battery drains very faster, sometimes got problems to turn it on.. (btw the firmware of December in my device result as not installed). After some restore, clean up the system and updates my system is back stable, faster as first day just the battery has not the same performance as before and this make me disappoint as I was quite unhappy Microsoft update the CPU so faster... but for my needs 4200u quite ok... of course new processor would be better but I will happy and satisfied just if I could get previous battery performance. Unfortunately in Italy the new firmware has not been released yet, so I'm waiting for it and I hope to read some good news from us about it, but I'm a bit worried system could be worst again... I love my surface but I think the mistake was to buy it for first... sorry for my personal vent and my bad English. Let's hope in new firmware.

A similar story here. The SP2 I bought in December got "hit" by the Bad Firmware. The firmware fix that was supposed to released on Jan 14 never showed up. The MS Store then agreed to exchange my old SP2 for new one (which had the 4300u).

The new SP2 is less "flaky" than the old one, but I'm not sure it performs better than the 4200u. Anyway, if and when new firmware is offered, I will wait until it's well tested before installing it. As you say, I have reasons to be cautious. I do believe MS will straighten out their errors with the SP2, it just might take a while.
 

Guybrush

New Member
The week I've got unstable system, I seriously thought about to ask a replacement and specially after MS decide to update their set of CPU, but I needed my surface for work and after a restore, a disk cleaning and some updates my system back faster and stable, I don't have all problems I read on here except battery life is no more same as before. I was worried about to ask another device because I don't want a used unit reconditioned.. I have been very careful with my unit and I don't want change it. My hope is to see fixed this problem with the new firmware. Btw I love my surface, but if I could go back I wouldn't buy it so fast... that's was the biggest mistake.... maybe next months sp2 will be cheaper, hardware upgraded and stable... so what's the advantage for all us users that tested their devices? That's disappoint me. I think MS doesn't stop to support us and they will work to fix all problems but at the moment seem they are still doing experience, so install a new firmware is always a risk... My system now is fast and stable, my unit doesn't reboot, my type cover always work and the device is doing his work... so I'll think two times before install it.
 

grumpy

Active Member
I got the new firmware Friday night and I just had to do a hard reset to restore the proper battery level...:cry:
I guess it is time to get an exchange from MS. I also have a creaking screen, but I was going to live with it if this firmware fixed my other issues. Although, I am a little worried after hearing about the condition of some of the refurbished replacements.
 

LuckyL

Member
I got the new firmware Friday night and I just had to do a hard reset to restore the proper battery level...:cry:
I guess it is time to get an exchange from MS. I also have a creaking screen, but I was going to live with it if this firmware fixed my other issues. Although, I am a little worried after hearing about the condition of some of the refurbished replacements.

I had my SP2 replaced due to stability/power issues after the Dec update - it also started running hot which I believe caused the creaking screen. The advanced exchange was easy and quick, the replacement arrived within 2 days.
The device was in perfect condition - if it is a refurbished unit, then they refurbish it to "as new".
The battery is at full capacity, no scratches/scuffs, the screen sits tight all around and I have less backlight bleeding than on my original device (which you only notice on the start Screen at boot time anyway).
I have a 4200 processor which is fine, I was not expecting an upgrade, I received the device I originally paid for and I have to say I am quite pleased with the process and the outcome.
 

Arizona Willie

Active Member
is this update ONLY for Surface Pro 2?

I got my Surface Pro in March last year and I have not seen hide nor hair of this update people have been talking about for days.

I have begun to suspect it is some kind of early April Fools Joke.
 

CreativeLemming

Active Member
is this update ONLY for Surface Pro 2?

I got my Surface Pro in March last year and I have not seen hide nor hair of this update people have been talking about for days.

I have begun to suspect it is some kind of early April Fools Joke.

Yes, Pro 2 only - this is the SP2 thread after all :)

You probably got some update on the 14th/15th for the Pro, as detailed here: Microsoft Surface Pro update history | Surface firmware updates, but that's not the topic of this discussion.
 

Arizona Willie

Active Member
There are several threads about the update ... none of them are titled to indicate it is for Surface Pro 2 only.
And, this thread and the others show up when you go to the Quick Links button and select < Today's Posts >.
When you do that you get posts from ALL the sections :)


Yes, Pro 2 only - this is the SP2 thread after all :)

You probably got some update on the 14th/15th for the Pro, as detailed here: Microsoft Surface Pro update history | Surface firmware updates, but that's not the topic of this discussion.
 

Rvacha

Member
Supposedly this is an official MS response that was part of an update on Mary Jo Foley's article yesterday. I don't see it myself but here it is
"This weekend we released an update that addresses the unexpected wake and battery drain behavior experienced by a small number of Surface Pro 2 customers who installed the December Windows Update. This should have no impact on users already running the October Windows Update. We’re working hard to address the remaining Surface Pro 2 items from the December Windows Update.”

....whatever that means.
 
Last edited:

jrapdx

Member
Supposedly this is an official MS response that was part of an update on Mary Jo Foley's article yesterday. I don't see it myself but here it is
"This weekend we released an update that addresses the unexpected wake and battery drain behavior experienced by a small number of Surface Pro 2 customers who installed the December Windows Update. This should have no impact on users already running the October Windows Update. We’re working hard to address the remaining Surface Pro 2 items from the December Windows Update.”

....whatever that means.

Am I to interpret it to mean the recent FW update is intended only for SP2's damaged by the Dec10FW? It doesn't really make sense because some owners of new SP2's did get the Jan 2014 FW update, and others like me did not.

I'm still very confused about the whole FW thing.
 
Top