pen inaccuracy

Discussion in 'Microsoft Surface Pro 2' started by ccorsani, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. ccorsani

    ccorsani New Member

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    Hi, I got my brand new pro 2 for drawing. After a few days I notice an inaccuracy. I need wintab (wacom feel) drivers to use it with photoshop. It seemed to me inaccuracy, so I examine my tablet and:

    1 - tried windows 8.1 and windows 10 ... same problem
    2 - tried with and without firmware upgrade... same problem
    3 - tried some alternatives calibration procedure (with 100 and 273 points) ... same problem

    problem.

    - the cursor does not stay in the same position relative to pen tip, somewhere is just little down, somewhere little up or lef or right
    - in the up-left and up-right corner the cursor if 5mm far away from pen tip!
    - near the left edge and right edge at 10mm the cursor is 2 or 3mm far from pen tip for a while

    In your experience is it possible is hardware fail or surface pro 2 is CRAP? I need to draw my comics but I can't with such inaccuracy! My fix workstation is a cintiq and is really on another planet.

    MS propose me a refurbished substitution on my 15 days devide! Crap!

    What can I do?

    Please help.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2015
  2. revmike

    revmike Active Member

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    This has been going on since the beginning, my suggestions is to live with it or get something else.
     
  3. leeshor

    leeshor Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure of that. If it was so there wouldn't be so many people able to produce such fabulous drawings with the Surface Pro.
     
  4. ccorsani

    ccorsani New Member

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    The up left/right corner problem is known but I have a sort of vertical "band" mostly on left and less on right at 10mm from the left/right edge of 5mm width where cursor and pen tip are not in the same place = 2mm of gap! Is it normal? If so I will keep my surface paying attention and I will never bought a microsoft hardware again, that is sure! If not means that probably something is wrong in my hardware. I have to accept a refurbished one, because no new one is available and I have also to wait because there are not so many pro 2 available (MS says).

    Does someone has the same problem?

    Sorry for my bad english. I'm very upset have spent money to get something that does not work as it does.
     
  5. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes Well-Known Member

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    The pen technology is all about interference detection to put is it in a but shell. So basically, it detects a specific interference and estimate where the pen is.

    You can calibrate the pen, sadly Microsoft built-in calibration layout, is a very generic one untouched since Windows XP, and isn't specifically designed for the device itself it is running on.

    This is where my software comes into play.
    My software which you can find here (Windows 8/10 ready version):
    Download site: Surface Tweak Tool - Experimental Build
    Read more about it in detail in this forum: Surface Tweak Tool for Surface Pro 2 - Release! | Microsoft Surface Forums

    I have spent considerable amount of time adjusting the custom calibration to reflect the Surface Pro 2 digitizer.
    Ignore the Intel settings, they don't work right now with the latest Intel drivers, and this is what the 'experimental' version is all about. It won't damage anything if you run it regardless, it won't affect your system, don't worry about that. Any who, the rest is the same as the normal non-experimental version and this is what you care about.

    I recommend the 80-point calibration, where when you calibrate the pen, you shift your pen to the right-side of the center area of the target to hit
    Like so:
    [​IMG]
    Notice how the pen is shifted to the right a bit and not dead center.

    This will offset the thickness of the glass.

    Will it be perfect? No. But it should be far better.
    You can also try the other calibrations but they are more extensive, and more prone to human error.


    Hope this helps.
     
    leeshor likes this.
  6. ccorsani

    ccorsani New Member

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    Many thanks I will try again. I don't want to open a war with MS waiting months for a refurbished (BLEAH!) one that have the same problem. I'm going to reset all and follow your suggestions.

    But: what about wintab drivers? I need pressure under photoshop and manga studio. MS unbelivally gave pressure only for their app! When I will install wacom feel drivers (MS suggest it!), will I loose all my calibration?

    Panel inaccuracy is really embarassing and MS support knos nothing about digitizer!

    Here two (low quality video) where I show my particular issue (not the edge problem)

    with a bamboo feel pen
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1638909/bamboo.avi

    with the MS pen
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1638909/ms-pen.avi
     
  7. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes Well-Known Member

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    If you install WinTab drivers, then the calibration changes to the Wacom one. My software does nothing at this point, and your previous calibration will be lost.

    Under Windows 8 and above, you have something called: Windows Ink API interface. If a program supports it, it supports all capabilities of the pen. Basically it replaced the aged old WinTab interface.
    WinTab was created so that software maker didn't have to have to go with a list of compatible devices that the software can only work for, but rather all of them, including future ones without doing continuous support. Imagine having 3 tablets digitizers in front of you, for 3 different software as none of the 3 supports the the 2 other digitizers, due to to age, or simply not support them. So WinTab fixes this. Sadly, WinTab is a pain to implement for developers, and is very very old, and was just an interface layer itself, the software makers had to implement the entire tracking/behaviors system.

    Microsoft introduced under Windows 8: Ink API.
    And now, it isn't a driver, but rather the OS that handles everything, making developers life super easy if they implement it. They just need to implement the APIs, and Windows will do the rest, giving you, the user, a consistent pen experience between software, and not a different one, based on the implementation of WinTab interface, and how to behave. Meaning that if you press teh pen x amount, what you see on the screen as the software react to it, will be the same between your software also on other software that supports Ink APIs.

    I believe that the latest version of PhotoShop supports Windows Ink API.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  8. ccorsani

    ccorsani New Member

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    I used your tweak. Really good, pen accuracy goes better. I will check for photoshop. I'm lucky that the draw program I use most, Manga Studio/CLIP Studio Paint support Ink API.

    I must say, after many reset and try, that without wintab wacom feel driver and with 80 points calibration, the problem on the left side o screen it has been reduced (have you seen my videos?). Not solved, but reduced. The only two programs where I need pressure is Manga Studio and Photoshop (I use cs6 version).

    I will try the 273 points calibration.

    After that my sensation is that is not an hardware issue (something wrong in my devide) but a general surface issue. It seems like something "pass" under the panel that interfer with wacom digitizer like happens on the up edge of the screen. Isn't it?

    I don't want start a "war" with Microsoft to obtain nothing. If this is a surface issue I must say that is very embarassing, nothing comparable with cintiq companion (that I use as home stable workstation).

    Many thanks for you help and for your software. It helps a lot.
     
  9. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes Well-Known Member

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    Yea it is a reduced. The problem with Wacom technology is that the entire pen is being tracked, so as the pen leaves the screen on your right, it looses tracking ability, and gets progressively worse. If you look at the good Wacom tablets surfaces, you can see that they tend of have a large border. I believe the sensor is extended for better corner tracking (also it isn't limited by power consumption limits, as it is designed for desktop computers and not mobile device) Also, Wacom, never licenses out it's best technology, sadly. Probably that is one of the reasons Microsoft switch to N-Trig, and now bought them.

    So yes it is a 'Surface issue' which been fixed in the SP3 and S3 by switching to N-Trig technology.

    Glad my software helps!
     
  10. ccorsani

    ccorsani New Member

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    Yes, that's why also on my cintiq on the right border at 1mm accurancy is lost. In my surface case I have the well known problem on the up corners and on the left of the screen at 1cm from border. But is reduced with your help ... I think I'm going to cohexist with it. My first workstation is my cintiq, this (surface) is a portable and secondary workstation.

    Many thanks again, hope can help in the future.

    p.s. sorry for my tragic english :) (i'm from italy)
     
  11. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes Well-Known Member

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    No problem! Anytime. :D
    Thanks for the info and the update as well!
     
  12. ccorsani

    ccorsani New Member

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    News about thread:

    • I've started producing "things" on my surface. I must admit that is far away from wacom companion (I have as fix workstation at home);
      • inaccuracy: it's better work in the center of the screen, I have to deal with it;
      • jitter: is not possible to draw a straight line "slowly". Need to push software correction in Manga Studio, I do not love it, I do not like software correction to my "hand made" strokes;
      • glass is thick - you need to follow your suggestion to calibrate (pen a bit on the right);
    • Still on windows 8.1 I don't know if I have to move to windows 10. I'm afraid problems return. Do you think I can "safetly" upgrade?
    • Photoshop CC support "ink Api". Not CS6. Manga Studio luckily too;
    • I send to wacom japan support (italian support is nothing) this thread and all my consideration. They said they will consider with attention this problem.
    At the end of this experience I must say Iwon't buy a surface anymore. The screen is little, that's true, but the inaccuracy is really embarassing. Luckily I did not spent a lot of money (it was a sale of a big dealer to exhaut their storage).

    Thank all to your support.
     

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