Stability and Reliability

Discussion in 'Microsoft Surface Book' started by Telstar1948, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. Telstar1948

    Telstar1948 Active Member

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    Surface Book
    Well, I had my first BSOD after the latest updates. I changed my sleep setting back when so my Surface Book would go into hibernation faster to save on battery drain. Last night it was on with the lid closed for quite a while. Opened the lid to a black screen (hibernation) so tapped the power button and it showed a slightly lighter screen but nothing other than the camera's "red eye." Tried the Windows + P tap, no joy. Tried the power button again then the BSOD came up. It sent its little report off to MS then restarted.

    I love so many things about the SB, but I'm coming to realize that stability and reliability in a computer are truly essential to those of us that use them for work as well as play. It seems that in our rush to have the latest, coolest thing we sometimes ignore or gloss over this central tenant. We tell ourselves, it will get better. If it does, it takes months and months, and we, in the meantime, pull our hair out in frustration, mumble under our breath or threaten to "throw the thing out the window." What kind of device experience is that? Once it "gets straightened out," (and for some it never really does so they go through the "exchange game") will we use it a few more months before the newest device release is upon us then dump the one we had so we can start the cycle again?

    I've got until January 15th to return my SB for a refund. As I look at my SB right now on my desk, I really love it as a wonderful laptop/clipboard, but I have to ask myself why do I keep thinking about all the money I have in this thing and all the ways it is unstable and unreliable. Had MS released this beautiful device when it was well and truly tested and ready, I wouldn't be writing this post.

    I've heard all the rhetoric about early adopters - I've watched this phenomena from the SP1 onward and...that process hasn't improved one bit. I went through all this with my SP3 (and during the year+ I had it, MS fixed and broke again many things) and I'm experiencing the same things again only this time with a $2,000+ SB.

    After all, everyone of us wants our shiny new wonder device to work correctly right out of the box (I'm not talking about the occasional glitch that nearly every device experiences but rather the tidal wave of multiple glitches and instability most seem to experience). I'm thinking a lot more about stability and reliability. Pondering what to do with my SB...I think I know the answer, but I really hate the solution.
     
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  2. Micropel

    Micropel New Member

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    I understand where you are coming from. The only thing is its not all microsoft its also nvidia, Samsung, Intel they all help build the experience in all device. They have responsibility to make sure that the hardware is tested enough to not warrant numerous flaws that microsoft always ends up getting the blame for. Good example my friend says to me the other day " Frames are tarring in my video games microsoft sucks". I responded "did you check nvidia's website for new patches? or are you using a software program that overclocks your card?" come to find out it was user error with the over clocking and he was on the way to write a bad review about microsoft.
     
  3. GreyFox7

    GreyFox7 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Death by a thousand cuts. I don't know what it will take for Microsoft to recognize and correct their systemic problems but so far it has not been recognized. You cannot fix a problem unless you're willing to admit you have one. Chapters of PQA (Poor Quality Anonymous) are waiting. Id guess we're waiting for some massive quality fail event equivalent to SQL Slammer or Code Red, Nimda Et al. maybe Windows Update Borking a couple million computers or some such will do it.
     
  4. Niterider4

    Niterider4 Active Member

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    My Device:
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    Reliability and stability are key for me, and the Surface Book does not deliver on these most important criteria. It's a nice device, when it works, but that's not good enough. Microsoft takes the blame for this entirely - all I am doing is using Microsoft Windows 10 on Microsoft hardware to run Microsoft Office. If Microsoft can't deliver on that, then they can't deliver.
     
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  5. Telstar1948

    Telstar1948 Active Member

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    Location:
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    I hadn't really thought about other devices having most of the same issues as MS devices. I do realize that W10 is the source for some of these problems. Do you all believe that if I returned my SB for another "similar" device that I would still be dealing with the same tidal wave of issues with a different manufacturer's device?

    I understand that there are multiple companies involved in any device due to the various components, so I didn't mean to simply bash MS. I think any MS bashing on my part would be MS releasing a device that was exhibiting all the issues we've seen since release rather than waiting for a later release to get all these things under control (or working out the issues before so they could release a device at the time they preferred).

    So...any guidance here would be appreciated. Same problems if I jump ship for a "similar" device or could I expect to find more stability and reliability? I value your thoughts.
     
  6. GreyFox7

    GreyFox7 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    At the end of the day Microsoft puts their name and reputation on the final product regardless of where they got the parts or who assembled it. They have the final say on it.

    That said, it's possible Intel Skylake may have some stability issues which would likely show up in other products as well although there is some implementation flexibility which may yield one vendors implementation superior or inferior to the others.

    Id check forums closely for similar indications with other products, realizing that it's still early with Skylake product releases and difficult to tell how much of any product is in customer hands.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
  7. LewsTherin

    LewsTherin New Member

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    You guys might want to consider exchanging your Books...

    My first surface book (i5/256/dGpu) had few issues prior to the 12/2 updates. I had no BSODs, few driver crashes, battery life decent (I usually shut down). However, after the 12/2 update, I started getting a couple dozen BSODs a day. After a couple of days of trying everything I could think of to resolve the issues (system restores/resets, drivers, etc), I finally gave up and exchanged it for a new unit.

    This 2nd Surface Book had no issues prior to installing the 12/2 updates...after installing the 12/2 updates yesterday...surprise surprise, still NO issues! All of the things I could do with my first surface book to instantly cause it to BSOD, work fine now and I've been stressing it pretty hard the last 2 days.

    I'm usually the guy that sits around waiting for a software/firmware fix...this time around, I'm glad I made the effort to replace it. Just my $0.02.
     
  8. kimknapp

    kimknapp New Member

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    My Device:
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    I returned mine yesterday. I may come back when they finally have a finished product. As mentioned in other threads, at least some of the Books (not just mine) have problems transferring data over the USB3 port, causing it to disconnect. For example, if I tried copying images to an external SSD or My Passport HD, after a couple of GB the computer would appear to lock up. I finally figured out that it was just hanging trying to access the external device. In Device Manager, you can see the devices go away. You can also hear the tell tale tune that plays whenever a USB device is removed from a PC.
    All works well with my Win8.1 Yoga, so I am back to it for now.
    Two bad, it is a great configuration.
    Mine was an I7, 16GB 512GB.
     
  9. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf New Member

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    My Device:
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    It will depend on just how badly you need the convertible abilities of the SB. If the only thing you need is a good laptop, then I suggest you return the SB, get a decent laptop for a lower price than the SB, and don't look back. I pre-ordered my SB (i5+NV/8GB/256) and I was in the same predicament as you, only my 30 day return period ended a few weeks ago. I was also trying to decide whether to return it or stick it out. While things have improved over the weeks after release, and I obviously ended up keeping mine, there are still days that I regret that decision.

    On the other hand, if you do want or need the tablet capabilities of the SB, then things are a bit more tricky. You may still be better off getting a regular notebook and a cheap Windows tablet instead of the SB.
     
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  10. Seneleron

    Seneleron Active Member

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    I go through a lot of machines. In our house we have three desktops, 6 laptops, several iPad varieties, 4 cell phones. . And that's just what's accumulated from the last year and a half.

    I have yet to find a machine.. ANY machine.. that doesn't have it's own distinct set of issues. From GPU driver update glitches to occasional keyboard hiccups during boot to the three Surface pro 4s that had random black screen issues [except the last one, it was perfect, but then I spent time with the iPad pro and decided the screen was just a hair too small]

    From horrible trackpads to spotty wifi connectivity issues to heat throttling to backlight bleed/scaling issues there's always going to be that ONE thing that makes it just shy of "good enough".


    I'm not telling you not to give up on the SB. You gotta do what you feel is right, and you have to draw the line with what you feel you can live with. If there is ONE THING I have learned over the course of my tech addiction it is "learn what you can live with, because there will ALWAYS be SOMETHING you have to 'live with' ".

    As for me, personally, I'm hoping that "something" is the SB, because against even MY OWN best judgement, I just bought one [leaving to pick it up shortly]

    I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide /^^
     
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  11. cmatvchuk

    cmatvchuk New Member

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    My Device:
    Surface Book
    I have an I7, 16GB 512GB, that I personally use all day at work, on my desk, programming, email, documents, etc. I detach as well and carry into meeting and everywhere I go. I do not have any issues except for very rarely I used to get the NVidia driver crash. After 12/2 update no issues to speak of. I have had my machine since Friday, October 30th. The one thing that I did was wipe the machine clean, completely, partition my drive into 2, 1 for OS and programs, and one for my Data (just in case I had an issue I could just wipe and reinstall in 1 partition. I loaded Windows 10 Enterprise on it and have been patching all the way through. My experience has been awesome. I have recommended the SB to everyone who has asked. I helped deploy a multitude of the SB's and each time we completely wiped the drive and did bare metal fresh install.

    Personally it is the best, most comfortable laptop that I have owned....... And as I write this I glance over at my I7 Asus ROG and my I7 Alienware.... Which both have been off since I received my SB.......

    Currently I am running 10586.17
     
  12. Telstar1948

    Telstar1948 Active Member

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    Good comments from all.

    Aside from the issues and problems I've experienced with the SB (and SP3's for that matter) that may get better with time, or disappear altogether, I've finally come to terms more realistically with my needs. I'm not an artist, and I don't go to many meetings as some, so my need for the detachable clipboard for sketching or hours of handwritten notes is simply not there. I really don't need the high resolution screen on the SB. I like to game, but not in a major way, but I've noticed the dGPU in my SB isn't always up to par even with some older games where there's a lot going on.

    After analyzing my use scenario, I've found that the ThinkPad Yoga 14 (Best Buy exclusive) meets my needs very well. Same i5/8/256 but a better dGPU. I feel more relaxed wagging the TP around since it's not as liable to show bumps and bruises as the SB will with its very nice finish. For that matter, I can actually increase the TP's RAM to 16GB if I want, or I can switch out the SSD for something bigger/faster if I want - not saying I'll do either, but it's nice to have the capability. It really does everything I need for $1000 less than the SB. For my use scenario, it's really the way to go for me.

    Don't get me wrong here...the SB is a beautiful device on many levels, but actual needs on my part dictate a little different sort of device. It took me a few weeks to figure all this out while actually using the SB, and for that I'm grateful for BB's return policy right now. It gave me the time to sort through these things so that I could make a more practical selection for me.

    I still have a SP3 that my wife will be using so I fully plan to keep my hand in, so to speak, on these forums for future help and to see how the Surface line continues to develop. There may be a time when I'll return, but if so, it will be with a more realistic view of my needs than what drove me originally to buy the SB.
     

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