Surface Pro 2 Gaming

Discussion in 'Microsoft Surface Pro 2' started by Zuldan, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Zuldan

    Zuldan New Member

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    Well the Surface Pro 2 (running Intel HD4400) is going to be released on the 23rd of October with some decent hardware improvements. Microsoft is claiming 50% better graphics performance. So I was curious to know what gaming would like on it. Now obviously a tablet is no gaming machine for hard-core gamers but if you do a lot of travelling it's nice to pull out a tablet in a hotel room and play some games to kill some time.

    I have the original Surface Pro (running Intel HD4000) and most games play alright. Dota 2 is "reasonable" with graphic settings turned down (40fps to 50fps).

    So in my quest to find out more about Surface Pro 2 and gaming I came across this little section in the latest Intel HD drivers.

    Note: the Surface Pro 2 uses a 4th gen Intel CPU/GPU

    Intel HD Release Notes: http://downloadmirror.intel.com/23106/eng/ReleaseNotes_GFX_3257_64-bit.pdf

    <SNIP>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    GAMES SUPPORTED:
    The following recently released games are known to run well on 4th Generation Intel Core Processors:

     Dota 2*
     Grid 2*
     Lost Planet 3*
     Metro: Last Light*
     NASCAR: The Game 2013*
     Total War: Rome II*

    The list above is only a small list of some notable games that were recently released or updated. Intel conducts extensive testing on both new and older games to assess compatibility and performance by working closely with many game
    development companies to test their games on our hardware and drivers prior to the game release to ensure better
    experience.

    <SNIP>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    So Intel uses the words "known to run well" with Dota 2. I get excited each time I read that because I'm addicted to Dota 2.

    So my questions are, what are your thoughts? Do you plan to use the Surface Pro 2 for a bit of gaming? and if so what games?
     
  2. Name Taken

    Name Taken Active Member

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  3. Zuldan

    Zuldan New Member

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    As I said the SP2 is no hardcore gaming machine and the Razor would totaly kick it's ass but who wants to play games on such a low resolution 1366x768? with such such a big CPU and 2 graphics cards I can only imagine the battery doesn't last very long (maybe 2 to 3 hrs if you lucky).

    I wouldn't be so hasty and benchmark the SP2 before it's even released. Intel HD optimised drivers haven't been released yet for Windows 8.1 and only 1 benchmark software was run on it, that's not benchmarking a device.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  4. Name Taken

    Name Taken Active Member

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    The Surface Pro isn't powerful enough to play many games smoothly at native 1080p so you would need to scale the resolution down anyway. i5-4200U ultrabooks have been out for months so you can easily see the benchmarks and how it compares to 3317U ultrabooks. From that, you can extrapolate the performance difference between the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  5. Zuldan

    Zuldan New Member

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    I guess we shall see. I'll run some benchmarks when SP2 is released against my SP1 and post em here.
     
  6. Name Taken

    Name Taken Active Member

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    I'm disappointed Microsoft chose not the include HD 5000 Graphics. I'm not naive enough to believe Microsoft's claim of 50% better graphics performance when the 4200U has been on the market since June; the most I'm expecting is 5 more frames in games.
     
  7. demandarin

    demandarin Active Member

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    I just got Dead Island, from steam, installed on my pro. Looks and plays great on high quality settings.

    I posted in another thread likely scenario as to why MS didn't go with hd5000..no I didn't..lol it was in another forum...ill find it and paste it. Brb
     
  8. demandarin

    demandarin Active Member

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    Some one on redditt brought up a good point as to why MS not including HD5000 in Pro was actually a smart move.

    "The two skus that are in question here are the intel i5-4200u(HD4400) and the intel i5-4250(HD5000), the specs for the cpus can be found here,

    ARK | Compare Intel® Products,

    I think the notable thing people are missing is that yes the hd5000 has 40 EUs(cores) vs 20EUs in the hd4400, but first the cores clock lower while in use and secondly the higher power draw of the HD5000 actually has an adverse affect on the throttling of the cpu under both heat and tdp issues. This can be summarized easily by looking at the base clock rate for both skus, the 4200u starts at 1.6ghz while the 4250u begins at 1.3ghz. While both of those numbers go up and down, it is fairly accurate to say that while the gpu is under load, the cpu will perform worse on the 4250u. So where will this hinder us gamers? Games like StarCraft 2 and Civilization are known to be cpu bound games and others exist for sure.

    Now I know a lot of you are not convinced, so I have real numbers here,

    AnandTech | The 2013 MacBook Air Review (13-inch)

    In this review, the MacBook air 2013 model actually loses out when compared to the previous years model in cpu benchmarks simply because the cpu has to be under clocked to bear the hd5000's load. Remember also that the two skus have a $55 price difference that would be passed onto the consumer. Microsoft made the wise choice and put that money into better ram, dual channel high bandwidth memory (which is where most integrated gpus have an issue) which will surely give us great numbers compared to most other ultra books using one dimm. Lastly, the difference between the two skus become decreasingly noticeable under increasing thermal constraints, and the surface pro is one tightly wrapped product."

    Makes sense. What are your thoughts on this?
     
  9. demandarin

    demandarin Active Member

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    A member from another forum,be77solo, also posted this in response to someone question.

    " Originally Posted by xmarsh86
    I am using a laptop with ATI 6770M gpu, the game that i am only playing is Dota2, wondering if surface pro 2 with intel hd4400 can runs Dota2 in 1080p with high setting? Any advise? Thanks.
    If you are wanting the Surface Pro 2 to relace your current machine graphics power wise, you'll be dissapointed I fear... two totally different classes of machine: From notebookcheck.net, their benchmarks are often suspect and not consistent across the board, but their write ups I find really useful for this purpose... great site for comparisons:

    "AMD Radeon HD 6770M
    AMD Radeon HD 6770M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

    The AMD Radeon HD 6770M (sometimes also called ATI Mobility Radeon HD 6770 or similar) is a fast middle class graphics card for laptops in 2011. It supports DirectX11, is the successor of the HD 5770, and features higher clock rates, 80 more shaders, Eyefinity+ and the new UVD3 video decoder. However, it is still produced in 40nm and based on the same Whistler chip as the entire 6700M and 6600M series. The chip is normally clocked at 725 MHz, but is only clocked at 675 MHz in the MacBook Pro 15 Late 2011 model.

    The 480 Stream processors should still based on the "old" 5D architecture similar to the 5000 series. Therefore, the number of shaders is not comparable to the 1D cores of current Nvidia GPUs. The Tessellation performance, however, should be an improvement with the new cards. The Stream processors can be used with DirectX 11, OpenGL 4.1, DirectCompute 11 and OpenCL. The latter two APIs can exploit the GPU for general computations like transcoding videos.

    The 3D performance of the 6770M is slightly better than the GeForce GT 555M and is therefore positioned in the upper middle class as of 2011. Demanding games like Anno 2070 or Skyrim can only be played in medium detail settings and lower resolutions. Certain games, such as Battlefield 3, may even only run in low detail settings. Older games like Call of Duty: Black Ops are playable with all settings maxed.

    The new UVD3 video decoder supports the decoding of MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2, Flash and now also Multi-View Codec (MVC) and MPEG-4 part 2 (DivX, xVid) HD videos on the graphics card.

    Furthermore, the HD 6700M series integrates an HD audio controller to transmit HD Audio (TrueHD or DTS Master Audio) over HDMI and DisplayPort (e.g., for Blu-Ray videos).

    The AMD HD3D Technology offers support for Blu-Ray 3D and 3D displays (integrated and external). However, the solution is not as mature as 3D Vision from Nvidia in terms of dirvers and overall support.

    Thanks to Eyefinity, the AMD card is able to theoretically drive up to 5 monitors simultaneously. This would only work, however, if the laptop features enough DisplayPort outputs.

    The power consumption of the 6770M should be similar to the Mobility Radeon HD 5770. As a result, the 6770M is normally only found in 15-inch or larger notebooks."

    And their take on the HD4400 in the SP2:

    "Intel HD Graphics 4400
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-H...0.91979.0.html

    The Intel HD Graphics 4400 (GT2) is a processor graphics card included in some of the ULV Haswell processors of 2013. The relatively low base clock can be automatically overclocked using Turbo Boost technology. Depending on the processor model, the turbo clock rates may differ, resulting in varying graphics performance between models.

    In comparison to the HD 4000, the HD 4400 graphics core has been modified extensively. The GPU now supports DirectX 11.1, OpenCL 1.2 and OpenGL 4.0. It also features an improved decoder for 4K videos and the fast Quick Sync encoder. Compared to the faster 4600, the 4400 offers the same amount of shaders, but lower clock speeds.

    Clock speeds
    Core i5-4200U (15 W, 3 MB L3): 200 - 1000 MHz
    Core i7-4500U (15 W, 4 MB L3): 200 - 1100 MHz

    The performance of the HD Graphics 4400 is somewhat below the HD 4600, since the GPU is designed for ULV models. Therefore, the clock rates are relatively low. Furthermore, the reduced TDP limits the Turbo Boost. Compared to the ULV versions of the Ivy Bridge HD 4000, the HD 4400 is about 20 - 30 percent faster. This performance boost is achieved by architectural improvements and an increased number of execution units: The GT2 version integrates 20 EUs, compared to 16 EUs for the old HD 4000. Depending on the clock rate, the HD 4400 matches the performance of a dedicated Radeon HD 7550M.

    Due to the 22nm 3D Tri-Gate production process, the power consumption is relatively low. The HD Graphics 4400 can be found on ULV dual-core Haswell models with a TDP of 15 watts."
    _______________________________________________

    The SP2 will use way less power and be worlds more efficient, but it can't match the raw power of your higher classed dedicated GPU. Dropping resolution to 768p or 720p helps tremendously with more demanding games, but the HD4400 isn't by any definition designed to play modern games at high settings. I enjoy games from a few years back mostly and I'm usually completely satisfied with the result (this based on the HD4000 in the SP1 and when testing with the HD4600 in my current laptop).

    EDIT:

    And for those curious on their take of the HD5000 we were discussing a couple days ago just for fun:

    "Intel HD Graphics 5000
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-H...0.91978.0.html

    The Intel HD Graphics 5000 (GT3) is a processor graphics card included in some of the ULV Haswell processors of 2013 (e.g. Core i5-4250U). It represents the highest configuration of the integrated graphics unit (40 execution units), but lacks the additional eDRAM cache of the Iris Pro Graphics 5200. The relatively low base clock can be automatically overclocked using Turbo Boost technology. Depending on the processor model, the base and turbo clock rates may differ, resulting in varying graphics performance between CPU models.

    In comparison to the HD 4000, the graphics core has been modified extensively. The GPU supports DirectX 11.1, OpenCL 1.2 and OpenGL 4.0. It also features an improved decoder for 4K videos and the fast Quick Sync encoder.

    According to benchmarks in 3DMark 11, the HD Graphics 5000 is up to 50 percent faster than the previous HD 4000. In games, however, the performance advantage is significantly lower. With simultaneous load on the CPU, the low TDP of the ULV models (15 W) limits the Turbo Boost of the GPU. Although the HD 5000 features 40 Execution Units, the graphics performance is still somewhat below the HD Graphics 4600 with only 20 EUs (HD 4000: 16 EUs). Overall, the HD 5000 is thus just behind the AMD Radeon HD 7660G and at the level of a dedicated Radeon HD 7650M. Current games (as of 2013) will run fluently in low to medium-low settings.

    Due to the 22nm 3D Tri-Gate production process, power consumption is relatively low. The HD Graphics 5000 is available on certain ULV dual-core Haswell models in the 15 Watt TDP range."

    I just quoted everything. But some great infohere.
     
  10. demandarin

    demandarin Active Member

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    A member from another forum,be77solo, also posted this in response to someone question.

    " Originally Posted by xmarsh86
    I am using a laptop with ATI 6770M gpu, the game that i am only playing is Dota2, wondering if surface pro 2 with intel hd4400 can runs Dota2 in 1080p with high setting? Any advise? Thanks.

    "
    If you are wanting the Surface Pro 2 to relace your current machine graphics power wise, you'll be dissapointed I fear... two totally different classes of machine: From notebookcheck.net, their benchmarks are often suspect and not consistent across the board, but their write ups I find really useful for this purpose... great site for comparisons:

    "AMD Radeon HD 6770M
    AMD Radeon HD 6770M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

    The AMD Radeon HD 6770M (sometimes also called ATI Mobility Radeon HD 6770 or similar) is a fast middle class graphics card for laptops in 2011. It supports DirectX11, is the successor of the HD 5770, and features higher clock rates, 80 more shaders, Eyefinity+ and the new UVD3 video decoder. However, it is still produced in 40nm and based on the same Whistler chip as the entire 6700M and 6600M series. The chip is normally clocked at 725 MHz, but is only clocked at 675 MHz in the MacBook Pro 15 Late 2011 model.

    The 480 Stream processors should still based on the "old" 5D architecture similar to the 5000 series. Therefore, the number of shaders is not comparable to the 1D cores of current Nvidia GPUs. The Tessellation performance, however, should be an improvement with the new cards. The Stream processors can be used with DirectX 11, OpenGL 4.1, DirectCompute 11 and OpenCL. The latter two APIs can exploit the GPU for general computations like transcoding videos.

    The 3D performance of the 6770M is slightly better than the GeForce GT 555M and is therefore positioned in the upper middle class as of 2011. Demanding games like Anno 2070 or Skyrim can only be played in medium detail settings and lower resolutions. Certain games, such as Battlefield 3, may even only run in low detail settings. Older games like Call of Duty: Black Ops are playable with all settings maxed.

    The new UVD3 video decoder supports the decoding of MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2, Flash and now also Multi-View Codec (MVC) and MPEG-4 part 2 (DivX, xVid) HD videos on the graphics card.

    Furthermore, the HD 6700M series integrates an HD audio controller to transmit HD Audio (TrueHD or DTS Master Audio) over HDMI and DisplayPort (e.g., for Blu-Ray videos).

    The AMD HD3D Technology offers support for Blu-Ray 3D and 3D displays (integrated and external). However, the solution is not as mature as 3D Vision from Nvidia in terms of dirvers and overall support.

    Thanks to Eyefinity, the AMD card is able to theoretically drive up to 5 monitors simultaneously. This would only work, however, if the laptop features enough DisplayPort outputs.

    The power consumption of the 6770M should be similar to the Mobility Radeon HD 5770. As a result, the 6770M is normally only found in 15-inch or larger notebooks."

    And their take on the HD4400 in the SP2:

    "Intel HD Graphics 4400
    Intel HD Graphics 4400 - NotebookCheck.net Tech

    The Intel HD Graphics 4400 (GT2) is a processor graphics card included in some of the ULV Haswell processors of 2013. The relatively low base clock can be automatically overclocked using Turbo Boost technology. Depending on the processor model, the turbo clock rates may differ, resulting in varying graphics performance between models.

    In comparison to the HD 4000, the HD 4400 graphics core has been modified extensively. The GPU now supports DirectX 11.1, OpenCL 1.2 and OpenGL 4.0. It also features an improved decoder for 4K videos and the fast Quick Sync encoder. Compared to the faster 4600, the 4400 offers the same amount of shaders, but lower clock speeds.

    Clock speeds
    Core i5-4200U (15 W, 3 MB L3): 200 - 1000 MHz
    Core i7-4500U (15 W, 4 MB L3): 200 - 1100 MHz

    The performance of the HD Graphics 4400 is somewhat below the HD 4600, since the GPU is designed for ULV models. Therefore, the clock rates are relatively low. Furthermore, the reduced TDP limits the Turbo Boost. Compared to the ULV versions of the Ivy Bridge HD 4000, the HD 4400 is about 20 - 30 percent faster. This performance boost is achieved by architectural improvements and an increased number of execution units: The GT2 version integrates 20 EUs, compared to 16 EUs for the old HD 4000. Depending on the clock rate, the HD 4400 matches the performance of a dedicated Radeon HD 7550M.

    Due to the 22nm 3D Tri-Gate production process, the power consumption is relatively low. The HD Graphics 4400 can be found on ULV dual-core Haswell models with a TDP of 15 watts."
    _______________________________________________

    The SP2 will use way less power and be worlds more efficient, but it can't match the raw power of your higher classed dedicated GPU. Dropping resolution to 768p or 720p helps tremendously with more demanding games, but the HD4400 isn't by any definition designed to play modern games at high settings. I enjoy games from a few years back mostly and I'm usually completely satisfied with the result (this based on the HD4000 in the SP1 and when testing with the HD4600 in my current laptop).

    EDIT:

    And for those curious on their take of the HD5000 we were discussing a couple days ago just for fun:

    "Intel HD Graphics 5000
    Intel HD Graphics 5000 - NotebookCheck.net Tech

    The Intel HD Graphics 5000 (GT3) is a processor graphics card included in some of the ULV Haswell processors of 2013 (e.g. Core i5-4250U). It represents the highest configuration of the integrated graphics unit (40 execution units), but lacks the additional eDRAM cache of the Iris Pro Graphics 5200. The relatively low base clock can be automatically overclocked using Turbo Boost technology. Depending on the processor model, the base and turbo clock rates may differ, resulting in varying graphics performance between CPU models.

    In comparison to the HD 4000, the graphics core has been modified extensively. The GPU supports DirectX 11.1, OpenCL 1.2 and OpenGL 4.0. It also features an improved decoder for 4K videos and the fast Quick Sync encoder.

    According to benchmarks in 3DMark 11, the HD Graphics 5000 is up to 50 percent faster than the previous HD 4000. In games, however, the performance advantage is significantly lower. With simultaneous load on the CPU, the low TDP of the ULV models (15 W) limits the Turbo Boost of the GPU. Although the HD 5000 features 40 Execution Units, the graphics performance is still somewhat below the HD Graphics 4600 with only 20 EUs (HD 4000: 16 EUs). Overall, the HD 5000 is thus just behind the AMD Radeon HD 7660G and at the level of a dedicated Radeon HD 7650M. Current games (as of 2013) will run fluently in low to medium-low settings.

    Due to the 22nm 3D Tri-Gate production process, power consumption is relatively low. The HD Graphics 5000 is available on certain ULV dual-core Haswell models in the 15 Watt TDP range."

    I just quoted everything. But some great infohere.
     
  11. ksantoso

    ksantoso New Member

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    I am currently playing a heavily modded Skyrim with all DLCs on my SP (just for the hell of it! i have another machine for gaming)

    with gamebooster, throttlestop, and some performance tweaks and mods that u can d/l from skyrim nexus, I can get around 30-40 FPS on medium settings @ 1280x720, and around the same on low settings @ 1920x1200. FPS rate is around the same framerates as when you play it on a ps3/xbox360 (graphics is another thing). I reckon you can get 5-10 more fps on SP2 (not much but it is Skyrim..on a tablet).

    Squeeze every ounce of its power and it will do pretty well
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. demandarin

    demandarin Active Member

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    I've been playing Dead Island at full 1080P resolution on my pro with graphics textures on high. Plays great to be honest. Whenever I game I keep pro in high performance mode. No extra tweaks needed.
     

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