I don't want to move away from the original form factor either. But MS still has to clarify what it intends to do with Win10 and Office-related updates to the RT line. I see articles on one side screaming "MICROSOFT IS TOTALLY ABANDONING WINDOWS RT HA HA" and then (the MS blog or the Win10 event Q&A) saying "we're working on something." One thing I've learned in the Surface releases is to not trust the media entirely, LOL.
Our Surface 2's future?
- Thread starter EDRo
- Start date
I don't want to move away from the original form factor either. But MS still has to clarify what it intends to do with Win10 and Office-related updates to the RT line. I see articles on one side screaming "MICROSOFT IS TOTALLY ABANDONING WINDOWS RT HA HA" and then (the MS blog or the Win10 event Q&A) saying "we're working on something." One thing I've learned in the Surface releases is to not trust the media entirely, LOL.
Paul Roberts
New Member
I think it comes down to what the Device actually is...
The Surface 2 is a Tablet and Not a Computer - (Which is what the Pro line are - they are marketed as Laptop Replacements!) The RT models never were marketed as such and are devices which were developed to compete with the iPads and Android tablets out there.
I have a full Desktop at home to use for the Serious Computing stuff. My GF has a laptop, but we still find room in our lives for the Surface. It's always charged and ready to go - it sits in front of our Television - ready to grab and use at a moments notice - and it is used every day!
We generally use it for some quick internet access, a quick spreadsheet / word document here or there, looking at photo's, bit of Netflix / Youtube etc or maybe something else using a downloaded App.
The thing we love about it is that it's just there to use whenever booting up the computer or laptop would take too long. (Though - I have noticed im starting to use it less though after recently upgrading my phone to a Galaxy Note 4).
While i was dissapointed to hear we may not be getting Win10 for our device, the more i think about it, the more i dont really care... The Surface is fully functional as it is, it's an excellent user experience and totally blows an iPad out of the water.....It's a Tablet and not a computer!
The Surface 2 is a Tablet and Not a Computer - (Which is what the Pro line are - they are marketed as Laptop Replacements!) The RT models never were marketed as such and are devices which were developed to compete with the iPads and Android tablets out there.
I have a full Desktop at home to use for the Serious Computing stuff. My GF has a laptop, but we still find room in our lives for the Surface. It's always charged and ready to go - it sits in front of our Television - ready to grab and use at a moments notice - and it is used every day!
We generally use it for some quick internet access, a quick spreadsheet / word document here or there, looking at photo's, bit of Netflix / Youtube etc or maybe something else using a downloaded App.
The thing we love about it is that it's just there to use whenever booting up the computer or laptop would take too long. (Though - I have noticed im starting to use it less though after recently upgrading my phone to a Galaxy Note 4).
While i was dissapointed to hear we may not be getting Win10 for our device, the more i think about it, the more i dont really care... The Surface is fully functional as it is, it's an excellent user experience and totally blows an iPad out of the water.....It's a Tablet and not a computer!
That's the thing, no one buys a device NOW thinking "well, if it can't run the next major OS version, it's crap." That's not how it works. I still expect "some" Win10 updates to make it onto existing RT units, but they're still functional for the appropriate audience now anyway and better than iPad. MS marketing was shit for too long, though.
macmee
Active Member
If it has no developers and software updates it's dead in the water. I don't think it will have either.
It is a shame, Microsoft killed it. I love my surface 2. Best audio out, way better than my pro 3. I used it while I travel, especially during flights. I picked a new Dell Venue Pro 7000 android tablet, and yes beautiful screen, but not having used a android tablet in a couple of years, Kit Kat wont let you freely move files on to the SD card. and The headphone out sucks.
I think Microsoft should have never added a semi desktop to RT. That is what killed it. If they let you use only metro apps on it,it would have been a lot more successful.
Also old time windows users that never wanted to see things in a new light, still stuck in XP mode.
I have to say Microsoft should had done what apple did after launching OS X, either learn it, accept it, and move on.
This is why windows 10 is coming, to placate XP users that couldn't adapt to windows 8.1, and said, " oh its touch screen optimized" .
RT should have been the best tablet out there, but poor press, and bloggers wanted full windows on a tablet device.
Funny, you can't run desktop OS X on a ipad, yet no complaints.
That is the trouble with Microsoft, late to the party, and then listens too much to legacy users. You cannot have one foot in the stream, and one on the bank of the river.
I think Microsoft should have never added a semi desktop to RT. That is what killed it. If they let you use only metro apps on it,it would have been a lot more successful.
Also old time windows users that never wanted to see things in a new light, still stuck in XP mode.
I have to say Microsoft should had done what apple did after launching OS X, either learn it, accept it, and move on.
This is why windows 10 is coming, to placate XP users that couldn't adapt to windows 8.1, and said, " oh its touch screen optimized" .
RT should have been the best tablet out there, but poor press, and bloggers wanted full windows on a tablet device.
Funny, you can't run desktop OS X on a ipad, yet no complaints.
That is the trouble with Microsoft, late to the party, and then listens too much to legacy users. You cannot have one foot in the stream, and one on the bank of the river.
As for future Tablets in this class it would appear the Intel Cherry Trail SoCs would be the go to engine assuming nothing in the ARM family can be used. Currently there is very little information about Cherry Trail other than its the successor to Bay Trail, will be 14nm chip process, have the same GPU architecture as Broadwell although likely scaled back some, with better processing power and lower power requirements. Maybe Intel believes they have it (the power/performance of ARM SoCs) covered with Cherry Trail.
Advantages to businesses with the x86 platform is it could potentially be managed by the same tools/infrastructure as a regular PC and run legacy Apps which they love. Those aren't really advantages to a consumer. However the legacy Apps and Business Crapware are what destabilizes Windows PCs. If there was a consumer edition with Whitelisted Apps you might approach the stability of Windows on ARM which is the huge benefit to Windows on ARM over "Full Windows" aka x86 Windows.
How many times do you see ... I installed x and now I have a problem on a Surface Pro (ranging from battery life, system performance, crashing, weird behavior, etc, to App incompatibilities). You rarely see that with Windows on ARM, it's not that it cant possibly happen but there's no legacy crap for one and currently no malware so the likelihood is far far less.
Moving forward if MS implemented a whitelisting system (the capability already exists) for x86 APPs and Drivers and possibly some other User Experience Enhancements the quality of experience could be significantly raised. With WIN RT dead this option needs to be offered within the Windows Ecosystem because as it is there are far too many problems cropping up on Surface Pros to provide the High Level of User Experience necessary for a modern day tablet. On the other hand you could have the option to install any kind of crapware you can download and Browser Hijacking Add-ons, spyware, malware, to your hearts content then wonder why you have problems.
Advantages to businesses with the x86 platform is it could potentially be managed by the same tools/infrastructure as a regular PC and run legacy Apps which they love. Those aren't really advantages to a consumer. However the legacy Apps and Business Crapware are what destabilizes Windows PCs. If there was a consumer edition with Whitelisted Apps you might approach the stability of Windows on ARM which is the huge benefit to Windows on ARM over "Full Windows" aka x86 Windows.
How many times do you see ... I installed x and now I have a problem on a Surface Pro (ranging from battery life, system performance, crashing, weird behavior, etc, to App incompatibilities). You rarely see that with Windows on ARM, it's not that it cant possibly happen but there's no legacy crap for one and currently no malware so the likelihood is far far less.
Moving forward if MS implemented a whitelisting system (the capability already exists) for x86 APPs and Drivers and possibly some other User Experience Enhancements the quality of experience could be significantly raised. With WIN RT dead this option needs to be offered within the Windows Ecosystem because as it is there are far too many problems cropping up on Surface Pros to provide the High Level of User Experience necessary for a modern day tablet. On the other hand you could have the option to install any kind of crapware you can download and Browser Hijacking Add-ons, spyware, malware, to your hearts content then wonder why you have problems.
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All is not lost....a large (10.1" 2K) ARM based Windows 10 Tablet is being tested....looks to be a Lumia not a Surface:
http://www.neowin.net/news/large-arm-based-windows-10-tablet-spotted-in-benchmarks
http://gfxbench.com/device.jsp?benc...D=Qualcomm+LiQUID+(Adreno+420)&testgroup=info
Interesting.....
http://www.neowin.net/news/large-arm-based-windows-10-tablet-spotted-in-benchmarks
http://gfxbench.com/device.jsp?benc...D=Qualcomm+LiQUID+(Adreno+420)&testgroup=info
Interesting.....
kristalsoldier
Well-Known Member
Well, ideally, what MS should have done is released the Surface 2 in a larger form - like the current SP3, with the same aspect ratio (3:2), included pen support to facilitate working with the Office suite that was shipped with it, and laid out an upgrade path for said Office Suite to Windows 10. In addition to this, they should have included a very good media player (the Xbox stuff probably would not work) and, more importantly, a very good media management app. Looking ahead, these would have been - subject to updating - first generation Universal apps for the emerging Win 10 eco-system.
In effect, I think the Surface 2 should have been supported with a tight, but small, work and play cross-platform eco-system. So, Office, a very slick PDF and ePUB reader, media playback and management apps (with tie in to Win Phones) and the whole package should have been held together with inking capability. Priced competitively vis-a-vis upscale Android tabs and the iPad 4/ Air, it would probably have enhanced the value proposition. As someone pointed out above, conceptually, the Surface 2 was brilliant, but how they presented it to the market was terrible. I will miss having the Surface 2 - though my home still has the Surface 2 and it performs brilliantly for the duties that it is expected to discharge.
Hmm, I looked at a comparison of the 805 vs 800 and the 805 was listed as having Adreno 450 GPU but these specs indicate 420 so its a cut down 805. 
Well it just a benchmark could have been from a lab board.
We will have to pay extra to dodge the AT&T or Verizon robbery plan though.
Well it just a benchmark could have been from a lab board. We will have to pay extra to dodge the AT&T or Verizon robbery plan though.
My feedback would be to go full Snapdragon 810 to make it a more enticing upgrade vs the modest difference to the watered down 805. If you want sales you have to give people something to get enthusiastic about and blow their SoCs off. A Surface 3 or Lumia 3025 would need to deliver something more than a meager SoC change and resolution bump. Performance would probably be about the same and the added horsepower of the 805 would get eaten up driving the additional screen pixels.
Lumia 3025 should have: Snapdragon 810 64bit SoC, 3-4gb RAM, 2560 x 1440, 10.1", 3mp front, 10mp rear cameras, 4G LTE, 128gb microSD support.
Surface 3 should have*:
Tegra X1 64bit SoC,
4gb RAM,
2560 x 1600, 10.6" 16:10 screen,
4k 60hz Screen Support
32/64/128gb storage,
4mp front, 12mp rear cameras, with enhanced camera app
Screen Integrated Fingerprint Reader,
Pen input digitizer,
128/256gb microSD support.
Android App Support,
Office 2016,
Cortana,
Voice Command,
premium MS Band support
Dual Adapter WiFi a/b/g/n/ac dual channel mimo
USB 3.1 10gbps Type C
Bluetooth 4.2
WiGig
Built-in support for use as second display i.e. Miracast Receiver.
Same H, W Dimensions as Surface 2 (landscape: same side bezels, thinner top/bottom bezels)
Thinner, lighter.
Who doesn't want one?
*Include as many of these in the Lumia 3025 as you like.
Lumia 3025 should have: Snapdragon 810 64bit SoC, 3-4gb RAM, 2560 x 1440, 10.1", 3mp front, 10mp rear cameras, 4G LTE, 128gb microSD support.
Surface 3 should have*:
Tegra X1 64bit SoC,
4gb RAM,
2560 x 1600, 10.6" 16:10 screen,
4k 60hz Screen Support
32/64/128gb storage,
4mp front, 12mp rear cameras, with enhanced camera app
Screen Integrated Fingerprint Reader,
Pen input digitizer,
128/256gb microSD support.
Android App Support,
Office 2016,
Cortana,
Voice Command,
premium MS Band support
Dual Adapter WiFi a/b/g/n/ac dual channel mimo
USB 3.1 10gbps Type C
Bluetooth 4.2
WiGig
Built-in support for use as second display i.e. Miracast Receiver.
Same H, W Dimensions as Surface 2 (landscape: same side bezels, thinner top/bottom bezels)
Thinner, lighter.
Who doesn't want one?
*Include as many of these in the Lumia 3025 as you like.
InspectHerGadget
Active Member
I'm wondering what it will mean in terms of support for the Surface 2 and other RT products. If they swap the store over to universal apps then does that mean they still run on RT?
I think Microsoft does have some obligations in place to provide support and OS updates for a certain period of time which is several years.
I'm tossing up whether to buy a Surface 3 for my wife but may just leave it if the Surface 2 will be viable for some time yet in a practical sense.
Edit:
I have been reading on the subject. It looks like it will be quite usable for the next three years which is good enough. 32G of storage has become an issue though, really not enough.
I think Microsoft does have some obligations in place to provide support and OS updates for a certain period of time which is several years.
I'm tossing up whether to buy a Surface 3 for my wife but may just leave it if the Surface 2 will be viable for some time yet in a practical sense.
Edit:
I have been reading on the subject. It looks like it will be quite usable for the next three years which is good enough. 32G of storage has become an issue though, really not enough.
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