RT or Pro for requirements

[machistmo]

Actually, there are several things we can assume from the OP's post and subsequent posts such that it's not too early to make a recommendation:

OP went to an actual MS store to try out units. I'm assuming MS store only because the salesperson was knowledgeable enough to know a certain app was coming down the pike for WinRT (assuming he's right), and I don't expect anyone from other brick-n-mortars to know nearly as much. Even if it wasn't an MS store, the store would have other Windows devices available for demo, and the OP still came away with questions specifically about the Surface. Given the hands-on, we know the form factor isn't too small for OP and such and there is enough of an attraction to ask the use case questions.

OP was smart enough to give actual and specific use case examples for performance questions. The specific use case question is easily tested with the proper sample, and OP went to the store to actually demo it again in person using a sample. This is way more testing for a use case than in most circumstances. The test results from other users indicate even the first gen RT is sufficient for OP.

The low-maintenance nature of Windows RT (malware) is a big plus for a transitioning Mac user who doesn't want to deal with that maintenance in full Windows. OP expressed preference for Surface RT over Pro's form factor due to weight.

The primary issues revolve around lack of two specific functions, whether as apps or bundled into something else---SFTP as a separate app or in a file manager or something, and Adobe PS Touch. Supposedly the latter is coming, and I haven't found a good "regular use" app for the former (though I use side-loaded PuTTY myself).


By the above, we can say that Surface RT would be fine, and the OP should wait for the 2nd gens for an even better match to the conclusions we drew from performance-testing RT v1. The only draw for 1st gens is price cutting; there may be a bigger price cut in store, but who knows.

I would still not suggest anyone buy anything generation 1 when generation 2 is just about to drop. Period. OP - WAIT - don't listen to fanbois.... Wait, for the love of God, Wait. Don't get an RT device, seriously, don't listen to this guy, avoid the RT. You will be able to get a new Intel Powered full blown windows tablet CHEAP soon. Don't go for a tegra4 based unit when very shortly you can get a nice intel based device running the full blown windows and install whatever you want.

Again, IT IS TOO SOON TO BE ABLE TO POINT TO ONE DEVICE, but of all of them, I would NEVER point to an RT. This guy is coming from the world of iPad, stuff that works with every app you could imagine available right now and you are pointing him to an RT? Seriously and with a long winded bloated bunch of BS reasons and assumptions as justification for your bias toward RT?
I mean its just mean. And if I ever suggested an RT device it would be the one running the SnapDragon chip not the Tegra4.

Comparing the iPad3 to the RT ought to be illegal. There is no comparison here. This guy is going to be seriously bummed if he does follow your advice. I think we can both guess that the post was a troll post designed to lead to the RT being the suggested device, but I still can't and WON'T do that.

*** For the record I have owned each device.. The RT1, The SP1, the iPad3 and 4 and used and staged several other tablets. Everything I say is from experience, use and is of course my personal opinion. One taken from actually using all of the devices in questions as a result of OWNING them. Albeit my opinions are unpopular where the surface RT is concerned on these forums, but its the only place that is true.

 

[machistmo]

I thought the same thing... until MS-refurbed units hit ebay for $199 (32GB RT + TouchCase). But then again I have more tablets than anyone has a right to own and so it is more difficult justifying a higher price.

I might even snatch up an RT device for that price, but would not lead someone coming from the world of the iPad3 to an RT device, NEVER, ever, not ever. That would simply give them 200 reasons to go back to apple and never come back.

 

[oion]

I would still not suggest anyone buy anything generation 1 when generation 2 is just about to drop. Period. OP - WAIT - don't listen to fanbois.... Wait, for the love of God, Wait. Don't get an RT device, seriously, don't listen to this guy, avoid the RT. You will be able to get a new Intel Powered full blown windows tablet CHEAP soon. Don't go for a tegra4 based unit when very shortly you can get a nice intel based device running the full blown windows and install whatever you want.

Again, IT IS TOO SOON TO BE ABLE TO POINT TO ONE DEVICE, but of all of them, I would NEVER point to an RT. This guy is coming from the world of iPad, stuff that works with every app you could imagine available right now and you are pointing him to an RT? Seriously and with a long winded bloated bunch of BS reasons and assumptions as justification for your bias toward RT?
I mean its just mean. And if I ever suggested an RT device it would be the one running the SnapDragon chip not the Tegra4.

Comparing the iPad3 to the RT ought to be illegal. There is no comparison here. This guy is going to be seriously bummed if he does follow your advice. I think we can both guess that the post was a troll post designed to lead to the RT being the suggested device, but I still can't and WON'T do that.

*** For the record I have owned each device.. The RT1, The SP1, the iPad3 and 4 and used and staged several other tablets. Everything I say is from experience, use and is of course my personal opinion. One taken from actually using all of the devices in questions as a result of OWNING them. Albeit my opinions are unpopular where the surface RT is concerned on these forums, but its the only place that is true.

Your opinion is void as of the blue. You're also almost as good at missing the point as mitchevelli: OP demoed the unit and subsequently came specifically to the Surface forums, and judging by his careful thought of use case and doing two hands-on, surely he did consider other devices. That store he mentioned is an electronics store. Assuming it's like Best Buy in the US, it's impossible to walk past one device without seeing all the others. Also, the OP is waiting anyway, so no need to get your panties in a bunch. Seriously, unbunch them.

If a user actually demoed a unit in-hand and is satisfied in that capacity, it's not your place to downplay that experience. Ever. OP even responded to my post in agreement to the assessment. He's a smart enough consumer that he understands a choice is entirely his responsibility based on requirements.

I actually did try to steer someone away from the Pro earlier; he came in probably more wowed by the design or whatever yet kept saying how it was a big deal that the Pro power requirements didn't match his Kindle. There's no point in buying a device unless you understand everything about it, but that's just my opinion. Maybe he went and bought a Pro anyway.

Reading between the lines of your personal trauma, you're comparing "stuff that works" vis-a-vis iPad, implying stuff didn't work for you, ergo you had pre-patch software issues or a failed unit like some other buyers. Well, I've never had problems with my RT; I bought many months after initial release, and after patching (obviously), everything ran smoothly, performance with my large documents and multiple browser tabs was fine, and there were only a few apps in the store I was interested in anyway. Clearly the RT was made for users like my use case, not yours--read my sig. (We already agree that MS fucked up marketing early on, but it's a year later and there's enough information out there to make a proper choice if people just look, and actual user reviews are important there. RT will finally get Outlook.) As for the Pro, there are many positive user reviews out there about their experiences. Can you really logically say their positive experiences are somehow false? You're obsessively desperate to evangelize hatred from your own personal trauma; I'd chalk it up to a bad unit. It does happen. Here's some advice: Get over it. If you can't even respect other users' positive experiences with a product that you personally do not like, you need to grow up.

And you're right, comparing the iPad3 to the RT should be illegal: The RT is far more functional. They support different use cases.

I might even snatch up an RT device for that price, but would not lead someone coming from the world of the iPad3 to an RT device, NEVER, ever, not ever. That would simply give them 200 reasons to go back to apple and never come back.

You're blind and ignorant of use cases and specifically to the requirements in this thread, given your generalized response here. OP wants something for word processing and to consolidate devices into a small form factor (Pro is too big for him). He mentioned nothing about app games and the like. He already tested RT's MS Word against the iPad's Pages, and I advised that he'd have to get something else for solid photo editing (e.g. Photoshop) for his work, but he may be satisfied with what's in the app store now.

To repeat: If a user actually demoed a unit in-hand and is satisfied in that capacity, it's not your place to downplay that experience. Ever.

 

[demandarin]

No need for dramatics... I hear you that from your experience, RT sucked. Ok. We get it. But from what I've seen on this forum, most RT users are very satisfied with their device. Even on notebookreview forums also.

Me personally, if I can get a full blown win8 device around same price as rt, I'd get the full blown version. Even with that said, this isn't like win rt first dropped. The win8 store app selection has increased exponentially since then. So the lack of apps argument is not as strong anymore. I've seen people post and detail some pretty intricate usage setups with their rt. They were doing more with their rt than I am currently with my pro..lol. I truly think RT/metro apps are here to stay. It may have a rough start, but will catch on eventually.

What's with this beef against tegra4? Which outperforms snapdragon800 cpu wise. But gpu on snapdragon more powerful. Nvidia is another one who is here to stay. I had tegra3 when it first reached mobile devices on transformer prime. It performed fine. Also on my nexus 7. Tegra4 in mvidia shield gaming device and Toshiba devices are performing fine. I do see the point of if Intel chip lives up to power and battery life hype, I'd rather have an Intel chip then also.

I do agree its best to just wait. We are like less than 2 weeks away from a big announcement from MS. We will finally get details on specs and when they plan to release. Now when that happens, the current lineup prices will drop even more. So if you not needing the latest and greatest, then after announcement would be best time to get a current model at a great deal. From now until Christmas, there's alot of good tablets releasing. Compare specs and price points. Also compare your type of usage to determine whether an RT version will fit the bill or if full blown win8 is what you need.

For the record, I don't think the other poster sounded like a fanboi on his post. He was just deducing that based on other poster details, sounds like an RT version would be fine.

Its comical reading this war of words between a person or two here who doesn't like surface period compared to everyone here who likes their device. This is an enthusiast forum for this device you know..lol

Remember you even said, you will withhold judgment until new devices are in hand to mess with. So for all we know, the new RT devices could be really good. You do make a great point that these new bay trail tablets with full blown win 8 is making decision hard to not choose that over rt version. Especially when price points are getting so close.

That new Nokia rt tablet is a very sexy looking beast. But by it being RT, its price needs to be cheaper. Especially when bay trail tablets with full blown win8 are said to come cheaper. With so many good tablets releasing, its hard to decide.

One thing though, any tablet is better than an iPad. Especially productivity wise..haha I still have my iPad 1st generation when it first came out. I originally wanted android but at that time, android tablets were lacking in performance. Now android tablets are way better than ipads, imo. Android is not locked into the walled garden. I'd get an RT over an iPad anyday. Most people I know, that are tech savvy, eventually get frustrated with limitations of iPad and the need for apples on proprietary connections. IPad days are numbered. Their sales and numbers have already been dropping more recently. They are still king of tablets but Android closing in fast. Then now add these new win8 tablets into the mix for cheaper prices.

Imo, I'd think even with rt/metro apps only, its alot more capable device than an iPad. Productivity wise. With office alone on RT, serious work can be done. I'd be willing to bet other manufacturers that dropped RT will come back online with them once they see it finally takeoff.

 

[machistmo]

Your opinion is void as of the blue. You're also almost as good at missing the point as mitchevelli: OP demoed the unit and subsequently came specifically to the Surface forums, and judging by his careful thought of use case and doing two hands-on, surely he did consider other devices. That store he mentioned is an electronics store. Assuming it's like Best Buy in the US, it's impossible to walk past one device without seeing all the others. Also, the OP is waiting anyway, so no need to get your panties in a bunch. Seriously, unbunch them.

If a user actually demoed a unit in-hand and is satisfied in that capacity, it's not your place to downplay that experience. Ever. OP even responded to my post in agreement to the assessment. He's a smart enough consumer that he understands a choice is entirely his responsibility based on requirements.

I actually did try to steer someone away from the Pro earlier; he came in probably more wowed by the design or whatever yet kept saying how it was a big deal that the Pro power requirements didn't match his Kindle. There's no point in buying a device unless you understand everything about it, but that's just my opinion. Maybe he went and bought a Pro anyway.

Reading between the lines of your personal trauma, you're comparing "stuff that works" vis-a-vis iPad, implying stuff didn't work for you, ergo you had pre-patch software issues or a failed unit like some other buyers. Well, I've never had problems with my RT; I bought many months after initial release, and after patching (obviously), everything ran smoothly, performance with my large documents and multiple browser tabs was fine, and there were only a few apps in the store I was interested in anyway. Clearly the RT was made for users like my use case, not yours--read my sig. (We already agree that MS fucked up marketing early on, but it's a year later and there's enough information out there to make a proper choice if people just look, and actual user reviews are important there. RT will finally get Outlook.) As for the Pro, there are many positive user reviews out there about their experiences. Can you really logically say their positive experiences are somehow false? You're obsessively desperate to evangelize hatred from your own personal trauma; I'd chalk it up to a bad unit. It does happen. Here's some advice: Get over it. If you can't even respect other users' positive experiences with a product that you personally do not like, you need to grow up.

And you're right, comparing the iPad3 to the RT should be illegal: The RT is far more functional. They support different use cases.




You're blind and ignorant of use cases and specifically to the requirements in this thread, given your generalized response here. OP wants something for word processing and to consolidate devices into a small form factor (Pro is too big for him). He mentioned nothing about app games and the like. He already tested RT's MS Word against the iPad's Pages, and I advised that he'd have to get something else for solid photo editing (e.g. Photoshop) for his work, but he may be satisfied with what's in the app store now.

To repeat: If a user actually demoed a unit in-hand and is satisfied in that capacity, it's not your place to downplay that experience. Ever.

Sigh.. iPad converts should not be pointed at the RT device. iPad converts should be pointed at the Pro realm. I mean unless you want them to swear off MS for good. Sigh..

I am blind and ignorant.... Whatever - RT is bad, RT is a MONUMENTAL FAILURE, M O N U M E N T A L. 900 Million Dollar write off, Ballmer is retiring(yea right). And so to point a potential iPad convert to it is just not smart. Who knows maybe a person using a play on words name for L33T should be ignored outright? The iPad, though not something I decided to continue using, always WORKED. It always booted, it always updated, the interface made sense and all the apps WORKED. I could and did give it away to someone and know that they would never call me and ask for help using it as it just WORKS. Say what you about it and I could say plenty of negative things as I don't love the Apple ecosystem or the iPad for a myriad of reasons, they always work. That was not the case for me with the RT or the Pro, though I did like the Pro and to some degree the RT for what they were, compatible with just about everything right out of the box, they both had fatal flaws that I could not overlook. I would however suggest that the Pro was a device specific case to some degree, but couple that with Windows 8 just not being ready for prime time and it was too much for me to put up with... MY experience was one of Apps not updating and freezing during updates, app not loading or behaving oddly, of IE not allowing me to go to websites on a whitelist, of Flash player being embedded and not working correctly (something iPad people probably wouldn't care about since they cant use flash) Not being able to use my 2010 Pro Plus outlook account to SHARE things from the OS but having to setup the METRO account instead to do that stuff... The list goes on and on.... I make no apologies for my feelings about either device and my advice is given as is and remains the same.... Wait.. MS just might have pulled their heads out of their collective rear ends this time around and I hate to see anyone jump into a gen1 device at this stage.

There is still far too little concrete information to point to a device for the OP. That being said, if RT is what the OP wants, I would suggest checking into the Nokia tablet as that Qualcomm Chip is AWESOME, compared to the Tegra4. /rant off

 

[oion]

Sigh.. iPad converts should not be pointed at the RT device. iPad converts should be pointed at the Pro realm. I mean unless you want them to swear off MS for good. Sigh..

You didn't read the thread. OP didn't mention only the iPad.

Read the thread and try again. I'll wait for your embarrassment from not reading my first post. Go on.

I am blind and ignorant.... Whatever - RT is bad, RT is a MONUMENTAL FAILURE, M O N U M E N T A L. 900 Million Dollar write off, Ballmer is retiring(yea right). And so to point a potential iPad convert to it is just not smart. Who knows maybe a person using a play on words name for L33T should be ignored outright?

Sure, it was a market failure on the whole of things. That has nothing to do with what a consumer wants and needs in a device at ground level. The only possible concern is whether or not MS will stop support for the first gens too early. You missed the point of this thread entirely.

 

[machistmo]

You didn't read the thread. OP didn't mention only the iPad.

Read the thread and try again. I'll wait for your embarrassment from not reading my first post. Go on.



Sure, it was a market failure on the whole of things. That has nothing to do with what a consumer wants and needs in a device at ground level. The only possible concern is whether or not MS will stop support for the first gens too early. You missed the point of this thread entirely.

Nothing you have said means anything to me and I am embarrassed about nothing. I offered my two cents and you went hog wild nuts attacking my suggestions. Which is ok, but I stand by my suggestion that the OP WAIT! I have provided sound reasons how and why I feel the way I do and why my suggestions are as they are. I'm good here.

Stop blindly supporting one company, what do you get cookies or something? I understand this is a fan site, but I think its ok to be honest if you aren't worshipping Steve Ballmer and company too..

 

[leahtt]

Machistmo wrote:

I think we can both guess that the post was a troll post designed to lead to the RT being the suggested device, but I still can't and WON'T do that.

My post is not a troll and I am sorry to read that suggestion.
Mine is a genuine enquiry as I need to weigh up my present needs and am grateful for all those who have made helpful comments, including your other advice, but not the assumption that my post is a troll's.

I am not a young thing, in fact I am at an age where the eyes need the print to be large, so I blow things up on the screen. Over the years, which are more than I like to think about, I have learn't to be cautious, so explore all avenues. I began using computers when the Amstrad (the first computer I used) was booted via a floppy disk and the owner of the ancient Amstrad had a manual the size of a house with bookmarks all over the place. Bought the first Mac, an LC11 in the early 1990s and have stuck with Macs until now.

I have the use of a Mac Book Pro (bought 2010 and still works well) for producing booklets, pamphlets and whatever for a society and a trust.

I just need a personal device to read Kindle books, do email and keep my photos and family history in folders. But, I also need to be able to write html/css and load them using ftp for my web sites, produce the odd booklet and do some things with photos which PS Touch does on the iPad. It would be nice in an emergency to be able to produce a 60 page quarterly so I am asking a lot for a tablet.

I love the touch screen on the iPad, have no bother typing on the screen but, the iPad has a huge downside.
It removed all the names on my photos and replaced them with meaningless numbers when I imported them. I had to buy a program which would allow me to name photos in folders and even then, I could not put pdfs, which need to accompany photos in family history, in the same folder with photos. Pdfs have to go within another program so are removed from where I want them. My family history is therefore fragmented.

On a Windows tablet, I will be able to have particular photos and accompanying pdfs together as they should be.

With Word, I will have a far superior program than the iPad 3's Pages.

I have played with both the RT and Pro at the store a number of times and like the touch screen keyboard better than the iPad's.

I am waiting for the announcements on the 23rd which will be on the 24th in my part of the World.

 

[demandarin]

I will add also the default onscreen keyboard on pro and rt is far better than any iPad or android one I've used. At least out the box.

 

[oion]

Nothing you have said means anything to me and I am embarrassed about nothing. I offered my two cents and you went hog wild nuts attacking my suggestions. Which is ok, but I stand by my suggestion that the OP WAIT! I have provided sound reasons how and why I feel the way I do and why my suggestions are as they are. I'm good here.

Stop blindly supporting one company, what do you get cookies or something? I understand this is a fan site, but I think its ok to be honest if you aren't worshipping Steve Ballmer and company too..

You skipped my first post suggesting the Pro. But whatever; reading isn't your strong point. And you missed the boat by a lot; the suggestion to wait for 2nd gen was made before you hopped in without reading the thread. And OP is doing that. So.... your posts are pretty irrelevant, I guess.

I suggest you go through my posting history. Under no circumstances do I advocate being a "fan" of a "company" like you assume. I work for a brand, and I don't even use their product. Get over yourself.

 

[machistmo]

You skipped my first post suggesting the Pro. But whatever; reading isn't your strong point. And you missed the boat by a lot; the suggestion to wait for 2nd gen was made before you hopped in without reading the thread. And OP is doing that. So.... your posts are pretty irrelevant, I guess.

I suggest you go through my posting history. Under no circumstances do I advocate being a "fan" of a "company" like you assume. I work for a brand, and I don't even use their product. Get over yourself.

Actually I didn't skip anything. Again, I said the OP should wait and not get anything Gen1. I think my post was spot on and your continued attacks on me are only because you feel some misguided fanboi-esque love for the RT. It is ok to love a device, but continued attacks on me, my family and country over it are just sad and lame. You remind me of my dog when I give him a steak bone. He just cant put it down. You need to stop attacking people for making suggestions that you don't like - PERIOD. Good god man get over yourself. Are you 15? I get it now...

Actually I think the OP should be looking at a nice Ultra-Book. Or a Gen3 I5 Laptop, those are being slashed pretty nicely price-wise right now and are really the best value for the money. Or a nice MacBook Air, now there is a sleek machine Maybe an iPad Gen5?

 

[machistmo]

No it's not a generalized or assumptive at all - tegra3 is slow. The chop released in 2011 , it's ok for killing zombies but even the metro scroll could be wonky in my RT. It should also b noted that the RT ships with a home and student license not a pro suite.