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Some Apple reliability perspective.........not all rosey toeszies

Ummmm... RROD is an acronym with meaning for a REASON.

I had my original xbox 360 do that, but I picked up the new design and no issues. I also got 2 years out of the original, 8 apartments, 2 dorm rooms, and countless hours ... hell who am I kidding, countless months of halo. Even with the RROD, I got my moneys worth out of my original 360
 

mcsenerd

Active Member
I had my original xbox 360 do that, but I picked up the new design and no issues. I also got 2 years out of the original, 8 apartments, 2 dorm rooms, and countless hours ... hell who am I kidding, countless months of halo. Even with the RROD, I got my moneys worth out of my original 360

I'm not dogging the XBOX. I hacked the ever loving' out of my original, lovin it to death all of the way and I got some decent time out of the first 360 too before my RROD experience (I wish I had gotten 2 years outta mine). But the fact remains that it's still a poor example of MS hardware prowess in many respects. Or maybe it's a great example... Poorly marketed at first despite great hardware and good games. Then over marketed and rushed out with a crucial reliability issue the second time. I don't own an Xbox One so I can't comment there. I'm just saying that MS had far fewer hardware hits and therefore their "batting average" ain't great in the perception of most consumers out there. Perception trumps reality in many cases anyway.

The point of the thread in the first place was to somehow disparage Apple by showing that they too have reliability issues (which they do... they're not perfect either). But the perception is that MS (and pretty much any other PC manufacturer for that matter) makes products of inferior initial and long term quality to many Apple products. Even PC Mag's own reader survey shows this: Laptops - Readers' Choice Awards 2014: Laptop and Desktop PCs | PCMag.com. 7 Years in a row rated highest laptop. You can call it cultdom all you want... but I say where there's smoke, there's fire and that they're doing something right. So... if you're going to go head to head with a company like that by directly calling out your product as a direct replacement for theirs... then you better bring your A++ game because an A game ain't gonna get it done.
 

fonzman78

Active Member
I agree here with basically everything. I'm impressed with the SP3 overall as a design, and functionally it works well enough for most tasks. It really needs 2.0 revision to make it worthwhile and I do think the design requires some additional technology to sustain the size vs speed factor at play. I returned mine mainly because it was too expensive to warrant keeping when it couldn't do EVERYTHING I would need it to. Great product, just needs 6 months, some updates/quality assurance updates, and broadwell (hopefully) to improve upon the overall experience.

Apple has a product cache that allows it to continuously better its designs over time. They've made some significant changes over the years to allow for that, going from the old chip designs, heck I can't even remember what they were called... PowerPC chips? To Intels. They are also a hardware company now which gives their software away for free. Microsoft is and never will be focused primarily on hardware, they have hardware products, but they make their money on their software. Their focus will never be nearly as focused on hardware as Apples.

That said, they are getting better, and technology overall is allowing companies like Microsoft to create a better product the first go around.

I wasn't about to spend $1300 to deal with a gen 1 device, I just picked up a Dell Venue 11 Pro for $475 out the door with a 30% off coupon from slickdeals. I needed something to get me by for the next 6 months while I wait for MS to do their thing with the SP3, and for $475, I can deal with a cheaper feeling, less stable product. I can't do that with a premiumly priced product.

And I agree with basically everything here. There is no doubt that the Surface 3 is a work of art. I don't think anyone will dispute that. It's also an engineering marvel. To create a full computer in tablet form factor is just amazing. I mean, to have an i5 full blown computer in a thin, light, high quality case is unheard of. Even Apple hasn't done this (yet).

Similar to Apple, MS is now focusing on tablet computing again. And I'm excited as hell. My first convertible laptop was the Toshiba M200. I really liked that laptop because I could write notes with the pen and do a whiteboard on WebEx. Over the years, I've tried other convertibles. The thought process was right, but the execution was bad. I mean, why couldn't I just rip off the screen part when I needed to take notes? I decided to give up on convertibles until someone figured out how to truly make a computer tablet.

Enter MS. When the SPro1 was announced and I saw the webcast, WOW!! Finally they had it right. A tablet first, laptop second that was a full computer. And the quality was excellent. Walk into any meeting with a Surface and you will turn heads. Even Apple users have to give props. Each version of the Surface is getting better. Similar to Apple, MS keeps innovating. Look at the difference between the SPro1/2 and the S3. I'm glad MS didn't just sit around trying to fix problems. They were actually innovating rather than just putting out another SPro3 that was like the previous ones. Long road ahead to get the Surface out in the mainstream. But it can be done.

I applaud those who don't want to be burdened by quirks in first gen devices. $1430 is a lot of money. If one is not happy, then most definitely return it and purchase a device that suits your needs whether it be Surface, Apple, or other.
 

demandarin

Active Member
Look... without getting into the insanely boring MS vs. Apple pissing contests... I guess in the jealousy driven minds of some, that "could" be a reason, but the real reason that Apple products tend to hold their value so well in resale is much the same reason that some vehicle makes retain their value. They DON'T discount much if ever on new product. It's that simple... There's no mass purchase discounts, flash sales, rebates, back room price cuts, or the like. Pretty much the price you see is the price you pay. Like I said, this is also what keeps Honda resale prices above their peers for the most part. Add that to the face that like Honda, the devices are generally still in good usable shape after a short period of time, maintain their usefulness, and still have demand...thus you get a decent return at resale.

So... You can call them overpriced all you want... or you can call them higher retained value devices. I prefer to think of most of Apple's products as the latter.

The reality is that the SP3 is a fine and wonderful device (but not perfect... not even close). If anything, like many MS products, it is suffering from another tragic mis-marketing campaign. They're making it out to be something that it can't be. They're writing checks that it's thermal capacity can't cash... Does that mean it's terrible? No, of course not. But if you're going to go out there hawking about replacing laptops... you better have the chops to back it up, and there is where I'm afraid they're falling flat. If they'd come out and just said, "the most powerful tablet ever, that can also do most of what you need from a laptop" then things would be different. Look... maybe they figure out a way to open the SP3 up without it melting to pieces. I'm personally hoping that they do. But while I'm not one of these crybabies running around screaming that the sky is falling... I'm not some rah rah brainless cheerleader either.

And yes, Apple's had plenty of clunkers over the years... How's that Apple HiFi doing? Anyone remember antennagate? How bout the cracking cubes? Remember the 3rd Gen iPad that got outperformed by the iPad 2? (By the way...I think that is the closest situation I can compare the SP3 to being) That being said however, even if it twists undergarments, Apple has established a brand that many believe (in my opinion, rightly so) generally produces mature, stable, and generally expectation meeting/exceeding consumer products. MS on the other hand has not done the same in anywhere close to the same vein with their physical product over the years.

Actually for exact same reasons. The newer Ipad increased resolution on 3rd. But used same processor, basically. So ipad2 was actually performing better due to lower resolution being pushed.
 

mcsenerd

Active Member
Actually for exact same reasons. The newer Ipad increased resolution on 3rd. But used same processor, basically. So ipad2 was actually performing better due to lower resolution being pushed.

I 100% agree, but the crazy thing is... I've got one of those 3rd Gen iPads (first Retina) and it's still a very viable tablet much as the Surface Pro 3 is today. It's just not everything that many hoped it would be or has been pitched as being. I'm not getting rid of my SP3 for the same reason as I didn't get rid of the iPad 3... It's a great form factor and the screen does enough for me to justify keeping it around. However... I'll be most likely looking to trade up once they get it really "right" with a future processor version.
 

Geneo

Member
I think it's funny that we're trying to compare Apple to MS. Go to Apple's forum (or any of the other brands) and you'll see that every computer has problems, regardless of make or model. Don't think it's about which brand is 'better', but which one, for you, has the least amount of problems in the areas you care about and that you're wiling to ignore the rest.

I'm imagining that every computer makers R&D department is working overtime with a SP3 that they've torn apart and are trying desperately to figure out how in the heck are they gonna come up with something not only 'as good', but 'better'. Sure they'll be 'competitive responses', but it will take a while. In the meantime, the Force is with the SP3 and while it's not perfect, it does set a new bar.... for Apple and everybody else.

Just wait till a year from now.
 

scottysize

Member
I think it's funny that we're trying to compare Apple to MS. Go to Apple's forum (or any of the other brands) and you'll see that every computer has problems, regardless of make or model. Don't think it's about which brand is 'better', but which one, for you, has the least amount of problems in the areas you care about and that you're wiling to ignore the rest.

I'm imagining that every computer makers R&D department is working overtime with a SP3 that they've torn apart and are trying desperately to figure out how in the heck are they gonna come up with something not only 'as good', but 'better'. Sure they'll be 'competitive responses', but it will take a while. In the meantime, the Force is with the SP3 and while it's not perfect, it does set a new bar.... for Apple and everybody else.

Just wait till a year from now.

I'm not trying to compare Apple to MS. Really. Two totally different environments. You might as well throw in Linux as well, if you're going to compare operating systems. The point I was trying to make was by comparing build quality to build quality. And yes, Apple has had problems in the past, but the machines that have come out in the 2000's have been awesome. They last for freekin' ever and work just as long. I know people that still use their original iMac today. (You know, the colored one that put Apple back in the game.) Of course, it can't be upgraded to the latest iOS, but it still runs fine and still does everything that it was made for. That's build quality people. A computer that was made in the late 90's still alive and well today. I don't have any PCs left over from the late 90's and if I did, they wouldn't do crap today.

If you move on to the laptop discussion, no one builds a better Laptop than Apple. I know. I've tried them all. The only one that lasted was my MacBook. That's why I said, I hope I get at least 2 to 3 years out of the Surface Pro 3. If so, I'll consider it as successful purchase. If not, I'll probably have to go back to an iPad and MacBook Pro again. 2 devices to do everything I want to do. It's why I jumped to the SP3. It does everything I need with a single device. I just hope it last. (Hardware wise, not software wise.)
 
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