It's going back :( Quite sad, tbh

Discussion in 'Microsoft Surface Pro 4' started by Zkyevolved, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. Zkyevolved

    Zkyevolved Active Member

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    Hello!!! I am a big time fan of the Surface line, but today for some reason all of my Windows apps were replaced with @{microsoftCommunication....} tags. Can't open any apps. Went and spoke to the Surface team, and gave them control of my PC and they asked me "How important is the information on your SP4? Can you make a copy of it? We're going to need to format it" And this would be the second time that this specific error has happened in 3 weeks. This would also be the 5th time I'll have formatted a SP4 of mine...

    This is just too much for me.
    • Micro lags since the last update.
    • No correct sleep mode without draining the battery.
    • Light bleed.
    • Slow SSD write speeds, even my SP2 has DOUBLE the write speed (but half the read speed, but still, faster performance than my SP4!)
    • Losing connection with the pen and needing a restart to fix it.
    • First charger wouldn't charge from the USB port.
    I really REALLY love the SP4 hardware, and the Surface line. I have the Sp2, and Sp3 at home. Awesome devices. But the 2 SP4s I've had were FAR too buggy to merit the cash! And having to reformat multiple times a month with very basic basic use.... Come on! And it takes about 3 hours to refresh windows or reinstall!!!! 3 hours x 5 = 15 hours of just watching a black screen and not using my device in a month, that's FAR too much! I know a lot of you are having the same issues. I know some of you aren't having any at all. But being realistic, it has a lot of issues... Even the tech with whom I was speaking said that they released it far too soon due to the high demand of support their getting requests for.

    So before my 30 days ended, I decided to return everything. 2 SP4s, the keyboard and extended warranty.
    The only other devices I am going to consider right now is the Dell Inspiron 2-in-1 7000 series SE. And the HP Spec. i7 as well. But I don't know, I'll wait and see.... Hopefully the Surface will get fixed and I can buy another Surface in the near future. Until then... Arg... I'm so devastated by how unreliable this device is.... I left it at home and went to work with my Sp2 (thank God everything is synced via BTSync and Dropbox).

    Anyways, best of luck everyone! I'll be dropping in every once in a while to check the current state :) I'll miss my Sp4, especially now having to return to the Sp2 haha. What a gorgeous piece of hardware.

    Update: I'm keeping it, see post #25 here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  2. Nspyr

    Nspyr Member

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    I bought the i5 model and picked it up the day it came out. I went through the same things as you. Reformatted a few times, updated drives, etc. I really like the sp4 and hated that I had to return it. I returned it the day the i7 came out and I got that instead of another i5. Different CPU/graphics meant slightly different drivers. The i7 is so much better in terms of no driver crash, no red & green screen color changes, and no freezes. Also, the one I got has no light bleed like the i5. I gambled and lucked out. In short, don't give up. Just be patient with MS and their drivers. SP3 also had issues when it came out. I waited and got an ironed out SP3 last year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  3. Zkyevolved

    Zkyevolved Active Member

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    I use my SP4 as a work device. Having to reformat it 5 times is a total nightmare. Each time took 3 hours to reformat, and then updates, and then having to resync, reconfigure, and play around with it when I need it for work is just too much for me. I understand that the i7 is a lot better, but I paid 989 euros for the SP4 (i5 with 128gb) because that's all I need. The cheapest i7 model is 1619 euros. I'd have to pay an extra 600+ euros to not have driver crashes, lags, freezes, light bleed and slower ssd performance than my 2 year old SP2 that Microsoft also made? I don't think so.... When it was JUST the sleep issue, I could hold out with hibernate. Then it was the microlags, which bugged me a lot, but since it was introduced in the last update, I said OK. Then I couldn't open my information, pictures, windows apps, etc ... and when the tech said "How important is your data?" I lost it. No device at such a premium cost should require so much maintenance to allow me to use it for work (documents, powerpoints, editing some pictures and painting). I'm not asking for 4K video editing, I'm not asking to give me 15 hours on battery... So, I returned it. Who knows if they'll fix it with the current devices, or with updates within the next few weeks. I just had to get rid of it. Burned too big of a whole in my pocket to be a test user. I am certainly looking at an i7, but not in the Surface line because it's far too expensive. 1,600 + 150 for the keyboard + 150 more for the warranty = 1,900 for something I only wanted to pay 1,300 for (and even then, it was purely an impulse buy because my SP2 is 100% functional, but I wanted a change).

    I will keep my eye out on the SP4 for future updates, but I have a feeling I'll be picking something else up within the next few weeks. I enjoyed the larger screen for the Sp4 :)
     
  4. Moonsurface

    Moonsurface Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Why not use your sp3, you said you have one?
     
  5. Foreverseeking

    Foreverseeking Member

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    I totally understand your frustrations. At first I was telling everyone tell get the SP4, but now, no way. I'm on my second too, the first had Hardware problems (that happens, it's ok to me) but you're right, reinstalling windows and apps takes forever.

    Since the last updates I have had even more bugs than ever. Sleep is 100% broken, and frankly dangerous. I came home to a smouldering SP4 on my bed when it was supposed to be off! Fire Risk anyone? Never felt that any of my modern devices could be dangerous whilst left OFF, but the metal was almost too hot to touch. That's probably taken off a few days of my battery life.

    So now my €1500 device is set always to hibernate, terrible.

    But not even that works. Very often the screen is black, IR cam blinks read and... yep. it's dead again. yeppie. I am keeping mine as I want the device (when it's fully working after future promised updates) and am not going through the set up process gain, it takes too long. But, as it stands, I would NEVER in a million years use my device for:

    serious live work
    presentations
    live note taking
    on the field

    Basically all the reasons that I would use this device professionally over a PC. Therefore for me, as it stands, this device is useless and just a very expensive, and mobile, light gaming and internet device.

    It makes me pretty livid at MS that they have released the shambles. Surface sales are beating IPAD right now, that is Terrible news IMO as it means all those people looking to hop on the MS bandwagon are having to deal with all these issues and will likely send their device back and go back to Apple. The one time I used the SP4 as a note taker whilst on the job? Died. black screen just red light blinking at me as a mockery to let me know it's powered, using battery, and utterly truly useless.

    The SP4 will be great, and I still love it. But it is broken... really, not metaphorically, broken, as it stands as a work device and if MS doesn't sort out these killer bugs within the next few weeks then they deserve the fallout and long term damage to their brand it will achieve.

    Rant over :)

    P.S. for any one new to the surface brand, my very untechie wife owns a SP3 I7 for work, and she absolutely loves it.
     
  6. Zkyevolved

    Zkyevolved Active Member

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    It's my partners. It's mostly used at home, but often for work as well. I can steal it, play with it and such, but it's not my personal device. I had the SP2, my partner loved it, got the SP3 the following year.

    That's the problem: I use it for work EVERY day. Maybe I play Hearthstone at night on it every few days, but that's about it. 95% of the usage is work. If it doesn't work while I'm at work or I get a big flaw, those minutes are minutes that actually make me foolish and less productive (I'm a teacher, and I have to project every day all day up to the projector with powerpoints, videos, music etc). Having a class have to wait 2 minutes (30+ seconds to press and hold the reset, reboot, log in, open up the folders again etc) is actually deadly for a teacher! haha.
     
  7. Moonsurface

    Moonsurface Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Sad to hear all these stories. For me I'm stillhappy with my SP3... and in a way glad I didn't jump to upgr
    Ah I see I thought it might be something like that. Why not buy another SP3...?
     
  8. Zkyevolved

    Zkyevolved Active Member

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    It MIGHT be an option, but it costs exactly the same as a SP4. I didn't buy the SP3 last year because for me it wasn't a big enough upgrade. I suppose NOW it is! Haha. It's even an upgrade over the SP4 haha.
    This really killed me:
    Surface Pro 4
    snip_20151211073316.png

    Surface Pro 2, same model (128gb i5)
    snip_20151211152159 SP2.png

    Yes, reads went up, but writes went down.

    Have you guys ever used an HDD and done multiple writings and readings at the same time and hear from music or a video (playing off of said drive) glitch for a second? I get that frequently on my SP4 because of its slow writes. How is it that my older sp2 can write MORE THAN 2x the speed as my 2 year newer, supposedly better SP4? Pissed me off how it glitched up while listening to MUSIC and copying files for some students. Or watching a video the other day and the system was doing something and another glitch....

    This is my DESKTOP SSD and it's not even a GOOD ssd! haha. snip_20151211075151 desktop.png
     
  9. Zkyevolved

    Zkyevolved Active Member

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    I think I'll probably wait a few weeks or a month, and see the situation. My SP2 is holding strong. If the mistakes aren't corrected in the SP4 line, I'll look to the Sp3 or even newer devices. I've seen some other devices that offer 8gb ram and 256 ssd for roughly the same price. I'm sure in a month or two more options will be available.
     
  10. Foreverseeking

    Foreverseeking Member

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    The ssd is the only thing of the SP4 hardware=side that confuses me. I have heard that there are Samsung drivers in the wild that can double the write speed for the SP4, but have not tried them myself (I have enough issues already, without trying to bypass windows update in updating firmware. My Samsung Pro on my PC is so much better than the SP4, and is 2 years old.

    What's the point of incredible read if it's not backed up by decent write? Over 500MB/s doesn't really affect booting as its bottlenecked by other things. Same with loading games etc. So copying files is quick? Wrong, as the write is crippling...

    I find everything else on the surface pro 4 hardware perfection... or close enough to it. Anyway, I think for your needs waiting is the only option. I would never use my surface for teaching, and never in a million years for presenting. You're going to look like fail, not the device.

    I'd bet that by the end of January all the big bugs will be sorted (sleep. hibernate, windows apps). If not, I will be sending my device back as not fit for purpose, regardless of being within the 30 day period or not!!!
     
  11. leeshor

    leeshor Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine who is the IT director for a software company in the Atlanta area has about a dozen SP3s and now has a couple SP4s,. None, according to him, have ever had any problem that interfered with work. They keep them docked when at their desk but every time they leave their desk they take their Surface with them. I finally asked him why he keeps telling me he never has had a problem when others are complaining. I assume some of it was good luck, but he says at the end of the day they all get turned off.

    I think that has a lot to do with it as I have begun turning my SP4 off when I won't be using it for more than a couple hours. Since October I have had a total of 3 driver crashes, (2 in one day). I have made other adjustments like not using Edge and turning off WiFi while sleeping but I have a very stable system as do all the other SP4 owners I support.
     
  12. Zkyevolved

    Zkyevolved Active Member

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    These were the changes I made that I can remember off the bat.
    • Turned off wifi in sleep
    • enabled hibernate and changed the policy on how to use it like by pressing the power button
    • I shut down every time I was done with something, which is a big change from how I used my previous surface: I used to close the lid and left it alone for minutes, hours or days if I didn't need it over the weekend. Now if it's not 100% necessary to resume later (by hibernating, not sleeping), I shut down.
    • Updated the drivers manually to test out the SSD boost, negligible at most. This I only did 2 days ago, so I know that my other issues aren't influenced by this.
    • I use chrome and not edge.
    • I kept it docked to power whenever I could to avoid battery drain.
    • Kissed it good night before shutting down every afternoon.
    Every single one was true, except for the last one ;) haha.
    I had 2 SP4s... Sadly, every issue I had was easily replicated on both. I'm going to assume MS will sell many more during Christmas and then I'll try another batch after Xmas. Until then, I'll enjoy an extra 1,300+ euros in my bank account and MS can deal with their faulty and lackluster quality control devices.

    Regardless, I also see less issues with i7s and m3s ... I personally had 2 i5s. I was thinking about an i7 but it's far too much money for my usage. The SP3 we have here at home has 0 issues, but since the update from about a week ago appeared it is starting to have a wake from sleep issue. It doesn't bother my partner so much, so ... until I hear complaints, it'll stay that way. Hopefully an update is looming ahead.
     

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