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Is This Finally the End for the Surface

EMINENT

Active Member
I think you're missing my point, but let's do a side by side analysis.
The Broadwell 53xxY series will probably perform on par with 4300U on SP3 under load due to much more efficient thermal managing on Y series VS the horrible load performance on SP3. The catch is, it has much lower TDP, silent computing, much better gpu performance, etc...but the selling point is that it's going to cost a fraction of what the SP3 costs.
Granted, you get the solid build quality with the SP3, and I'm all for that but you should realize what my point is- The SP3 which was marketed as the "one device that can replace and do everything", which was said to be the faster than 95% of ultrabooks out there is not what we're seeing. You can't even do light gaming on this machine. I think that it's fair for buyers to expect a machine of this caliber to be able to run simple games like LoL or WoW without their machine turning into a burning hot grill.
Going from SP2 to SP3, I think it's fair to say that we expected at least an equal performance, not a 30% drop in performance.
That being said, overall I do think the SP3 is an improvement over the SP2. I was just playing a devil's advocate in pointing out that MS failed to meet their originally set mission statements, and you can't just deny any valid complaints that we're seeing on this thread by dismissing them as being "trolls" or dressing up as MS fanboys. You might not have a problem with the SP3 because your needs might be different, but that doesn't mean others can't have any expectations. If anything, I'm optimistic about SP line, and calling it an end for SP line is stupid. But for what little mistake MS has made, they need to called out. All I'm saying.

I don't expect exact performance while driving a bigger, higher resolution display. If gaming is necessary, those users should chose the i7 model or look elsewhere.
 

kevinlevrone

Active Member
I don't think the Surface Pro (1/2/3) has anymore problems than a regular PC.

The Surface Pro sales have nothing to do with product quality (which is great, in my opinion). It's because it's a new market niche for computing devices, with a new set of trade-offs which customers need to accept (and there are good signs that the tradeoffs are accepted). This is one problem.

But at a higher level, there is another problem. There is the perception of Microsoft. In the "superficial tech world" as I like to call it (this is the "gadget" tech world in which the writers and commenters don't know anything deep about software or hardware - they just like tech toys), most writers are Apple addicts that also like to bash Microsoft with every occasion, even defending the ridiculously outdated MacBook Airs with their pixelated screens or tiny screen iPhones which you have to turn on once every 2 minutes to see if you have missed any notifications because they lack a notification LED.

I for one I am glad that not many people use a Surface and many use Apple laptops. This means I have an advantage in productivity and I can earn more and live better in this competitive world :)
 

jnjroach

Administrator
Staff member
Well, they did coin the SP3 being faster than 95% of laptops out there, and pretty much pointed heavily to MBA, calling it a device faster than highest-end ultrabooks, and 20% boost from the last-gen SP2.

I've been doing some digging, and that statement definitely is not holding up under load scenerios.

Specific load scenarios....gaming mainly but the target audience is Information Workers and my SP3 is running all of analytics and number crunching much faster than the SP2....
 

puma

Member
This is not a gaming device.. and how many laptops even are? If you want to game go get a gaming rig.. not a laptop or a tablet. I use this for IT admin work.. it's my everything machine.. so was the sp2.. both work great for these tasks. Hey once in a while I will fire up Minecraft.. runs it full screen perfectly. I don't understand people buying this machine for gaming.. would you buy a monkey wrench to hammer in nails? Sure it would work kind of, but it's the wrong tool for the job.
 

kodos

Member
Specific load scenarios....gaming mainly but the target audience is Information Workers and my SP3 is running all of analytics and number crunching much faster than the SP2....

Much faster than the SP2? What do you think accounts (system wise) for the speed bump? It seems like the processor, GPU, etc. are all relatively comparable. Just curious.
 

ipaq_101

Active Member
I didn't buy the SP3 for gaming, I bought it so I could take notes with the pen while in B-School. That being said, everything else that I use the SP3 for works nicely. I have a dell xps 15.6 inch ultrabook which weighs a ton and gets even warmer than the SP3, the difference is that I don't have to rest the SP3 on my lap.

For my needs and what I use the SP3 for, it works perfectly. Most people aren't hardcore gamers or hardcore photoshop users. For the masses the SP3 works extremely well and works well as an all around laptop/tablet.

I think that is the purpose of the SP3, to replace middle-high end devices, not gaming machines or other high profile specs.

The SP2 might be a tad faster (the anandtech review slightly rates it faster), but nothing the average user will notice.
 

jnjroach

Administrator
Staff member
Much faster than the SP2? What do you think accounts (system wise) for the speed bump? It seems like the processor, GPU, etc. are all relatively comparable. Just curious.

For me, my SP2 was an original 4200U, so I believe it is a combo of the modest jump in CPU and better network performance and a better tuned machine....Pivot Refreshes that took my SP2 5-7 minutes to complete are completing in 2-4 minutes on my SP3.
 

gwinegarden

Member
Dismal sales = significant losses to the point where major Microsoft shareholders are clamouring for Microsoft to get out of the hardware business altogether.


Major shareholders are not interested in anything but share prices. They have no loyalty and would sell Microsoft to the highest bidder.
 

IlbeRevolution

New Member
Specific load scenarios....gaming mainly but the target audience is Information Workers and my SP3 is running all of analytics and number crunching much faster than the SP2....

Under load scenerios. Not just gaming. Any kind of heavy work-load programs such as preimere, sony vegas, 3D RTR.
I like how some people just dismiss this problem by simplting saying that "SP3 was designed for simple office work, not heavy-load scenerios", but then I challenge you to provide me with even a single advantage you would have from having a SP3 over a high end Baytrail counter part like the lenovo miix 10, if running low-end programs is all that you need.
Here's the bottom line- There is no perceivable difference when running simple apps like Office, Web browsing, even Photoshop between the core-i VS the baytrail machines.
Why would you spend double or tripple the cost for maybe 10-15% performance boost?
If you take away "light-gaming" away from SP3 line, There is no advantage you get over a cheap baytrail machine!
I honestly can't believe it when some people just straight up dismiss any kind of lack of performance in simple light-gaming (We're not even talknig about AAA titles here! SP3 could never even handle Crysis 3, not even in dreams)!
Throttling issue and heat issues are one of the most twitted/discussed topics on other forums, yet you simply dismiss it here by saying "SP3 was never meant to be used under heavy work-load scenerio"?
Ironic how there's so much hate towards iSheepers, yet that sample logic doesn't apply when it comes to MS fanboys.
 

jnjroach

Administrator
Staff member
I disagree with you overall assessment, as we've seen the SP3 do 3D rendering utilizing CAD Software, the new Adobe Creative Suite supports their entire suite on the SP3. I've personally have done complex data models on my SP3 without throttling. It does appear that some legacy Win32 programs cause resource issues that trigger throttling.

We also know that updated software designed for modern hardware works as designed.


Also, I own a Bay Trail Atom and the SP3 is significantly faster in every aspect, disk clean up on the Bay Trail Dell Venue 8 Pro took 3 hours to clean 3 GB data, the same command on the SP3 5 minutes for the same 3GB, running my Data Models take 10-15 minutes on the Dell, 2-4 minutes on the SP3.
 
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bkydcmpr

Member
This is my question!! What the HECK does that mean, does being a "Connected Standby Machine" automatically mean handicapped CPU/GPU performance? I get the basics, ie it has different sleep patterns, but why does that cripple it for serious usage that both the SP1 and SP2 were capable of? Call it what you want, gaming, designing, creation, etc, but bottom line is the SP3 is SIGNIFICANTLY slower when pushed than the SP2 is. It's easy to say gaming is the issue, it's not a gaming machine, so get lost; but it will also affect anything that pushes either the CPU or GPU, or heaven forbid both. I dare say many professionals will expect actual performance that the SP3 is simply not currently providing.

Is there hope with firmware updates? Or is slower performance the tradeoff for this "connected standby" crap?
I don't play game at all but was thinking to use it with oculus rift for some development work, could be an issue. I haven't got mine yet, pre-ordered i7.
 

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