An OS that doesn't address all the system management issues is not so good as it ought to be. If they don't have solutions for doing Firmware updates or drivers for devices and device firmware updating... It's lacking. let me translate that into Linus language ... $$@&!/>¦~@#. shit.
Intel slowdown
- Thread starter gman713
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macmee
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I don't think it's fair to say linux is bad because it doesn't let me update the firmware on my surface. The ability to update firmware is going to vary from device to device and Microsoft is running a lot of proprietary code and intentionally makes it difficult for open solutions to flashing new firmware.
wouldnt it be effected the same as windows is?
wynand32
Well-Known Member
Okay, I wanted to resurrect this thread because my opinion of the patch effects has completely changed. Since my 15" SB2 1TB received the firmware update, it has been a hot mess of performance issues. First, the touchpad and keyboard are now lagging like crazy, both on battery and when plugged in (it happens regardless of which power mode it's in). Second, opening apps and files is slower, and general performance has dropped significantly. Games like Halo Wars that played flawlessly prior to the patch now suffer from intermittent lag.
I've done a bit of research and I'm not alone. I'm not sure if this is specific to the Surface line, or if other machines are also suffering slowdowns. Right now, I have four days left before the holiday return policy ends, and I'm seriously considering returning this and rethinking the whole thing. It's just not performing as a $3,400 notebook should perform. In fact, it's not performing as a $700 notebook should perform.
I've done a bit of research and I'm not alone. I'm not sure if this is specific to the Surface line, or if other machines are also suffering slowdowns. Right now, I have four days left before the holiday return policy ends, and I'm seriously considering returning this and rethinking the whole thing. It's just not performing as a $3,400 notebook should perform. In fact, it's not performing as a $700 notebook should perform.
Unfortunately it seems all CPUs are in the same boat up the same creek without a paddle.
wynand32
Well-Known Member
I wish I could say the same. At times, the touchpad is literally unusable because I can't hit a very precise spot. That lasts for a couple of seconds at a time, revolves, and then comes back. I'm really curious though why some people would see the issues and others wouldn't.
I'll speculate that speculative execution is much like any other speculation, prone to being wrong at times. Exacerbated by timing issues. i.e. If the timing is off a bit and it varies from CPU to CPU even within the same model CPU (potentially due to microcode issues) then another immutable law comes into effect. All timing holes are infinite, meaning that no matter how short the timing hole is the heavenly bodies or dependent objects will align so that you repeatedly fall into the same hole. Such that the end result of bad timing and bad speculation conspire to make all things down right squirrelly as hell.
If you had a database of benchmarks for a given CPU there would be variances in the performance from one run to another and post Spectre updates those variances would be greater i.e. the standard deviation of scores is greater. when things don't occur within their expected window the squirrels run rampant but timing may be on the margin such that it's not always outside the expected window so sometimes it's ok and other times it's causing a lag and perhaps other times Blue Screens.
We tend to think computers are very precise but in fact they are very chaotic, modern computers very much so, they are just very fast so you don't normally notice. It's like the Pinball Wizard except now he doesn't always play it clean, doesn't always get the replay, misses some bumpers, his flipper finger is just a little off, and sometimes he does fall.
wynand32
Well-Known Member
I'm running a little experiment. One thing that I noticed and commented on in the thread I started specific to the touchpad/keyboard lag is that it seemed to be caused by Edge. Then I backed away from that, because it seemed to be occurring independent of Edge.
Now I'm thinking it might actually be related to RAM usage. I've noticed that it gets worse after a time following a restart, and after using Task Manager to monitor performance, I then noticed that it seems to start when RAM usage goes above 10GB. The interesting thing is, that happens mostly when I'm using Edge -- open my usual number of tabs, RAM usage goes to 10GB or more, and then the lagginess seems to start.
So, I fired up Firefox Beta 59 that I'd been giving a try, and noticed that RAM usage stayed under 8GB when opening my usual tabs and with all of my usual apps opened. And, performance remained better (still a bit of an overall slowdown in the UI, but not absolutely terrible). Funny thing is, I'm kind of liking the newest Firefox builds, it's significantly faster than Edge and Chrome, and I'm not finding it to be much worse on my battery life than Edge (and better than Chrome).
I might very well change my tune, as I've done before. I'll report back on whether there is indeed a valid correlation between RAM usage and lag.
Now I'm thinking it might actually be related to RAM usage. I've noticed that it gets worse after a time following a restart, and after using Task Manager to monitor performance, I then noticed that it seems to start when RAM usage goes above 10GB. The interesting thing is, that happens mostly when I'm using Edge -- open my usual number of tabs, RAM usage goes to 10GB or more, and then the lagginess seems to start.
So, I fired up Firefox Beta 59 that I'd been giving a try, and noticed that RAM usage stayed under 8GB when opening my usual tabs and with all of my usual apps opened. And, performance remained better (still a bit of an overall slowdown in the UI, but not absolutely terrible). Funny thing is, I'm kind of liking the newest Firefox builds, it's significantly faster than Edge and Chrome, and I'm not finding it to be much worse on my battery life than Edge (and better than Chrome).
I might very well change my tune, as I've done before. I'll report back on whether there is indeed a valid correlation between RAM usage and lag.
As an experiment- I switched to using the NVIDIA GPU as the default and any lag I was experiencing went away with Edge. It's possible the CPU patch has impacted the Intel GMA.
wynand32
Well-Known Member
That's possible. I'll add this: Edge in general has really slowed down for me, and not just on my SB2. I think Microsoft also updated it to mitigate for Meltdown (I think that's the one that can use the browser to exploit). I'm fairly certain that Edge wasn't doubling RAM use prior to the update, but I could be mistaken.
Right now, Firefox 59 is SIGNIFICANTLY faster. I mean, it's night and day. Even typing into a text box in Edge is slow but speedy in Firefox. I should probably test Chrome as well, but I'm kind of fed up with Chrome right now.
I agree - Firefox has come back in a big way - I've been using it more and more...
wynand32
Well-Known Member
As I previously noted, when I load up Edge with the same tabs and apps open, my RAM usage exceeds 10GB and sometimes jumps up to as much as 15GB. When I load up Firefox with the same, RAM usage never exceeds about 7.5GB. At least on my machine, Edge is broken.
Edit: Just loaded up Chrome as with the other two, and it's using around 8.2GB. So, Firefox is less than both Edge (by a huge margin) and Chrome (by a much smaller margin). And Firefox is much faster than both.
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