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Just some venting here, maybe someone from Microsoft is listening?


First of all I am a long time Apple user and I must say my MacBook pros, ipads, and iphones, generally just work like they are supposed to. Apple is not without their own quirks but they generally get fixed in a reasonable amount of time. Secondly, I do work on windows machines and support many offices with their server and workstations. Thirdly, the only reason I am venturing into the windows world personally is because of the need of Windows OS to program home theater remotes and automation equipment for my business. I have been using Parallels on my MBP to run windows but have been running into more and more problems lately with the usb ports connecting leaving me unable to complete programming on jobsites. I thought I would just buy a cheap laptop to accomplish my programming but I know from experience that anything less than an I5 is useless. I also would like to have a work carry around device to take handwritten notes on and do my programming. This type of device is something that Apple does not have in their arsenal of toys. So I naturally levitate to the Surface devices. Last year when my aging 7 year old MacBook Pro needed replacing I got a surface pro 3. With all of its problems last year, it could not replace my MBP. I returned to SP3 and got another MBP. Everything was great again. This year with my Parallels/USB problems and the launch of SP4, it felt like the time to try surface again. I bought an SP4 M3 and set it up with all updates and my software. I started using it for casual web browsing and movie watching and quickly realized the battery was draining like a water bucket with a hole in it. I then went and got a SP4 I5 and the battery is better but still only like 4 to 5 hours. Next I also pickup a Surface Book. The SB naturally has longer battery life due to its larger battery capacity. Now everything gets confusing. I like the ease of use of the SP4 by easily removing or folding the keyboard to take notes. With the Surface Book I have been just leaving the clipboard detached while driving between jobsites taking notes and only putting it on the keyboard base when I need to do programming. Its funny how the small battery of the SB clipboard has been holding its own against the SP4. The SB clipboard is very well balanced and FEELS almost twice as light as the SP4 in tablet mode. I considered getting an DC to AC inverter and plugging in either machine while driving between jobsites to keep them topped off. If I keep the SB I feel that I will be using the tablet mode more that designed and worry about the life of the mechanical muscle wire locks. It is just highly aggravating that a product like the SP4 has so many problems ***** internet explorer has stopped working****** Geez as I wa s typing this IE stopped working and crashed on the Surface Book. Luckily when I logged back in all of this typing was still here.

All of this is just pathetic. I feel like I am settling on the SB just to get real usable battery life.

I feel like I could just get an iPad Pro with the Apple pencil for notes and drawings and $400 laptop.
Another option would be to go back to the Yoga pro 3 with its crappy track pad and real world 6.5 hour battery and a surface 3 for notes.

Its all up in the air!! Frustrated and tired of it all.


Super Moderator
Staff member
So you bought something g without taking g the time to read up on any if the VERY extensively documented issues, and are now ranting about said issues?

Why not go to the Microsoft website to vent, and ha e someone listen? I less there is something else going on ;)


I understand the frustration. Long time Apple guy here. The Apple experience has been far superior to my experience with the SP4. Just purchased the iPad Pro a few days ago and I have to say it felt awesome to have a flawless new product experience again. I have zero complaints about the iPad Pro. The Apple Pencil is simply incredible. Smooth as butter for note-taking and drawing. That said, the Sp4 pen is also pretty good, except for the occasional pen connectivity disconnects. Bottom line is that there is no perfect device in this form factor. That's why I own the iPad Pro and the Sp4. Both are great machines but both come with their own set of limitations. Given their similar pricing, I'd give the advantage to the SP4 for its increased functionality from operating a full OS, versus the limitations of Apple iOS. Just my 2 cents.


Staff member
Huge Wall O' Rant....

Bottom line, if you are unhappy with the Microsoft Hardware and Apple does what you want awesome, enjoy your mobile apps on the IPP and go in peace.

Other than stirring the pot what value is there in the thread?


Well-Known Member
I always know how these threads will go when they start with, "long time apple user" and then the rant bashing and praising of said fruit... so predictable LOL to me these posts should be deleted and the OP should go rant and praise on an apple forum...


Yep thats why I am here, and Ill try and hang in there. The main things keeping me right now great front firing speakers, the pen, 3:2 awesome screen (good as Mac, ha), and the great feel of the clipboard in my hand.


There's no question there's room for improvement but it's worth hanging in there and being part of the evolution of these products. The fact that we're here at all demonstrates just how compelling these products are!


New Member
Yeah I don't think we should bash the guy for being disappointed in the experience, and I also don't think it should be expected that when he bought it, he had read every article about every issue of the product. Whether it's fair or not, when you buy a lot of manufacturers products, apple or not, most of them DO work as expected. Sure there may be non obvious problems that come to light with time. But most products DO work as expected in their core functionality.

I love my surface devices, but we also have to be honest. The SB is a bit extreme in it's issues and their impact on utility. My own SB experiences keyboard and trackpad freezes, there are random BSOD's, etc. Its a bit much. But luckily my experience has taught me that Surface products are often buggy in the early days, so I expected this. I also expect that at some point I will have to do a hardware return, as I have on every surface device except my trusty SP1 (that was a tank for me), Am I pessimistic? Nope, just a realist on my experience. Do I love my SB? Yes I do, hence still having it. But we definitely should NOT say this is what its like with other manufacturers, because its just not true very often to this degree.


Super Moderator
Staff member
In hindsight (not that some didn't say so from the start) the SP4 should have had W8.1 as an option.
OS issues could have at least been distinguishable.
Driver issues are driver issues, same either way for the most part.
Hardware issues are hardware issues, same either way.
However new hardware, new technologies, new drivers, new OS combine to create the imperfect storm aka a hot mess. How did they not know?

Given that nearly every driver has just stopped working at some point or other (Audio, Video, Touchscreen, Pen, Keyboard, Trackpad, WiFi, Bluetooth there must be something common involved at some level. is that commonality the OS or is it the Hardware causing unpredictable behavior.

Some vendors have diagnostics available for their systems which would help determine if there's a basic hardware problem.

There's a lot of thrashing about due to the approach taken by MS and their inexperience as a hardware/systems vendor. The telemetry is good but it doesn't capture everything so problems go undetected. RESET/Refresh also hides a lot of problems and they will apparently just go on indefinitely. There should be a before & after system state analysis performed on Resets to capture information about what went wrong unless it's just an owner transfer.

They were the first vendor with a Skylake product and being on the bleeding edge will get you bloodied sometimes.

There's more to be done to be all it can be.
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