Surface Pro 3 Eye Strain, and how I got rid of it. BUYERS BEWARE!!

[nnthemperor]

Fair enough best, but the post was about getting rid of eye strains and headaches from looking at the screen which is also what the topic is about. So I don't see any thing that could be misleading here.

 

[besthsq]

The purpose of this thread, although not explicitly stated in the title, is to address the PWM dimming issue and warn people about the potential risk of eye strain involved. It is not about how to alleviate general eye strain associated with high DPI and small UI, which is common across all devices with DPI displays.
Besides, people should already be aware of the high DPI screen of SP3, but not the PWM flickering. This is why I'm warning people about it. I'm glad I helped at least maxx7.

 

[Ullit]

Hey,

today I did a small measurement of the Background light of the Surface pro 3 (sometimes having a Bachelor degree in physics is actually useful )
With lowest brightness settings, we can see how the LEDs are only switched on for a short time (F0005TEK)
The next picture shows the behaviour of the LEDs at around 25% brightness (F0006TEK)
The frequency of on/off is around 200Hz, which is a little bit low.
Starting at around 55% there is now PWM dimming anymore (F0007TEK)

So you should be fine with using the SP3 above those 55%.
Concerning the reasons for a PWM dimmed Display:
Probably there are no Displays without PWM with the colorgammut, brightness and Resolution like the SP3 one, which don't need a lot of power...

 

[KZG4337]

I'll add that I also began experiencing severe eyestrain after buying the SP3. I've been using computers heavily for 20 year s with no eye strain problems so this was a shock.

I wasn't sure what the cause was so I stopped using my desktop & tablets, and only iPad & iPhone. The worst symptoms disappear right away, most are completely gone within a few days. The DPI/size is definitely not the cause because I am able to remote in to my desktop from my iPad, which makes for a really miniaturized display.

I did have a SP2 for a year, but I almost always ran it on maximum brightness. The SP3, I have almost always ran dim because the screen was bigger and tints more toward blue (flu.x appears to crash the video card.) I really appreciate the info in this thread & Ullit's graphs.

Another interesting thing is I have mostly switched to LED bulbs in my house. Now I wonder if that is optimal.

 

[Kif]

I'll add that I also began experiencing severe eyestrain after buying the SP3. I've been using computers heavily for 20 year s with no eye strain problems so this was a shock.

I wasn't sure what the cause was so I stopped using my desktop & tablets, and only iPad & iPhone. The worst symptoms disappear right away, most are completely gone within a few days. The DPI/size is definitely not the cause because I am able to remote in to my desktop from my iPad, which makes for a really miniaturized display.

I did have a SP2 for a year, but I almost always ran it on maximum brightness. The SP3, I have almost always ran dim because the screen was bigger and tints more toward blue (flu.x appears to crash the video card.) I really appreciate the info in this thread & Ullit's graphs.

Another interesting thing is I have mostly switched to LED bulbs in my house. Now I wonder if that is optimal.

I've also noticed that I'm starting to get eye strain in the evenings after being on a computer all day. I've been using computers 30+ years and professionally 20 years. After talking to eye doctor I'm chalking it up to old(er) age and needing bifocals. ;(

 

[cemian]

Thanks Besthsq for posting this. Now I do not have to consider buying an SP3 anymore, since it clearly has the same PWM issue as SP2. Though setting the backlight at 100 is a solution, it still strains the battery and reduces the contrast of the display. With SP2 movies look quite bad when backlight is 100, so for such an expensive device, it is not a solution.

Great to see that more people are acknowledging the problem and spreading the word. Maybe, just maybe SP4 would then not have the same issue anymore.

For the people who do not understand this issue, it's a bit like celiac disease. Two people eat a slice of bread, the other gets a horrible stomach ache, the other has not problems. Then the one who does not have any prolems, starts to suggest "oh, it's because you didn't drink enough water with the bread" or " you should always toast your bread to avoid problems" or maybe you just think you have a stomach ache"

Celiac is a rare but widely and scientifically recognized problem. The PWM flicker issue is similar, but not yet scientifically understood, what is the exact mechanism why the eyes get irritated.

And while some think it does not cause permanent eye damage, the problem is still so bad, that if your eyes get bloodshot so that people start asking whether you have been crying or have a hangover, it is a problem at work. Then of course the constant irritation and soreness of the eyes.

So please do not comment if you do not understand.

So you are saying our SP3 is the gluten in your diet causing you an autoimmune response that is damaging your small intestine? And if you keep using your SP3 normally you will develop even more serious health issues like diabetes, anemia, multiple sclerosis, infertility or even osteoporosis? For your information celiac disease is not rare at all which occurs in 1 out of 100 people worldwide. If you have eyestrain or bloodshot eyes after using the SP3 then possibly you have some other underlying condition you should get looked at by a medical professional. You can always take a break after using the device so close to your eyes with max brightness for however hours straight you are using it.

 

[KZG4337]

Nice troll job in a thread people have actually taken the time to upload oscilloscope shots from measurements they personally did.

 

[bluegrass]

I think I may have a little eye-strain coming on after reading this thread. Yes we do get trolls occasionally visiting this forum.

 

[Speiro]

Thanks for the information. I had used Galaxy Note 10.1 and Acer R7 but I never had eye strains. Surface Pro 3 caused strange eyestrains, like very thin needle going through the eyes. I had tried computer glasses and two sheets of antiglare screen protector but I couldn't get rid of the irritation. I had purchased Pro 3 last year but I had to refund it. Even after I refunded it, I had that tingling irritation afterwards for at least a month whenever I looked at other computers.
The maximum intensity of Pro 3 wasn't my preference. It was too bright. And I don't see how to change the screen frequency. For me it will require some extra time that I barely have. I don't find any other good light windows tablet and Acer R7 is too heavy but surfaces don't seem right for me.
I read from other websites that there's no LED monitors that won't use PWM. Is this true? Is there a wayto tell from their product description that it won't cause eye strains like Pro 3?

 

[GoodBytes]

They are many LED backlight LCD monitor that uses a dimmer circuit.
Look at most Dell UltraSharp series monitor and most of the new models of the P series (Professional) monitors.
ASUS also makes LED backlit displays without using a PWM and using a dimmer circuit.

To know which has what, you need to check in depth monitor review sites. I recommend: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

In terms of mobile systems, well because PWM saves power over a dimming circuit, and consumes less space, it is difficult to find. And sadly there is no review site that covers this.

 

[Speiro]

Thanks for the link. I ordered the BenQ monitor to see the difference.
The following link http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/threads/flicker-free-tablets.64302/ shows which pen tablets have flickering. They observed flickering from youtube videos which seems to be due to PWM.
I want a light weight detachable windows pen tablet that is flicker free. I need to have at least three One Note windows, PDF Annotator with at least four books opened, and also web surf, so I probably need i5. At this point, I don't see any light flicker free windows tablet that have higher processor.
I may try buying two or three Atom processor pen tablets that is non-flickering like Lenovo 10. That might allow me to multitask, but other non-surface tablets seem to have their own problems according to the reviews.
It seems like 100% intensity of Pro 3 with 2-3 antiglare screen protectors to reduce the brightness is a better option, though I had to press the pen a little harder with two screen protectors.
It seems like Surface 3 is flicker free so it is also worthwhile to see if Pro 4 is flicker free.
But my Acer R7 is quite heavy to put on my laps for hours and I dislike the wait!

 

[ChrisPanzer]

Ever thought it just may because the default scaling/resolution is MICROSCOPIC and you're giving yourself a headache after 15mins of trying to read it?!