After details from today's Apple event...

[hypokondriak]

You know every one of their products is going to get a higher review than the surface, but as an ex-Apple nut I am thankful I broke away after seeing the last two press events. It may not be as fast, but the S2 is a ton more useful than the iPad Air or iPad Mini retina will ever be. I'm not missing out. Yeah maybe my apps would open quicker, but I'd use all that time up setting up my hodge podge of accessories and kluge methods that things like a simple magnetic keyboard/trackpad, usb, and HDMI port could resolve.

Then there is the Macbook Pro. After owning a Surface, I could not imagine spending $1300 + on a portable of any sort without a touchscreen / digitizer / etc. Yeah some of the specs are really great, but is a trackpad more useful than a Surface Pro with the digitizer and touchscreen? I'm just not impressed.

I can't believe I'm saying it, because I used to be such a fan, but Apple is quite boring to me. Faster and thinner is all they seem to have anymore these days...

 

[The White Falcon]

Yeah, the new iPads were really quite a disappointment. I think if they'd had TouchID, and started with 32GB it might have been better. Launching the new Mini at $399 is going to be a huge wake-up call for Apple. The average Joe will look and say "Uh...why does this smaller one cost as much as this bigger iPad 2?" and he'll likely buy the iPad 2. I don't know why they kept that one around.

 

[oion]

I don't want to pile on with anti-Apple stuff (it's the fandom that's bad, really) because there are use cases that work just fine with the products.

But I must say one of the funniest complaints I remember reading about the Surface was someone who tried to give it to their 6-year-old, who couldn't use it (ergo "Surface is crap"), and instead they bought an iPad for their kid... so obviously the iPad is the best tablet ever. I doubt the author there realized just how much of a non-insult that is on the Surface device.

 

[Telstar1948]

I agree. I've been an Apple user for some years, but the Surface line is definitely calling my name. You hear it all the time, but the iPad is primarily a consumption device. We've had (have) several & they're handy. I'm more interested in one device to do it all. I want an SP2 for my desktop and mobile tablet needs, and I plan to couple that with a W8 phone to keep it all together (iPhone presently and a Mac desktop). If I was hanging onto a conventional desktop I'd go with a Surface2 for my tablet needs; however, I plan on using an SP2 docked for my desktop and the SP2 undocked for my mobile use. Looking forward to it…now…where is that inheritance I've been waiting on to do all this?? Details…details...

 

[oion]

I agree. I've been an Apple user for some years, but the Surface line is definitely calling my name. You hear it all the time, but the iPad is primarily a consumption device. We've had (have) several & they're handy. I'm more interested in one device to do it all. I want an SP2 for my desktop and mobile tablet needs, and I plan to couple that with a W8 phone to keep it all together (iPhone presently and a Mac desktop). If I was hanging onto a conventional desktop I'd go with a Surface2 for my tablet needs; however, I plan on using an SP2 docked for my desktop and the SP2 undocked for my mobile use. Looking forward to it…now…where is that inheritance I've been waiting on to do all this?? Details…details...

What's interesting is that the mass tech media can't seem to figure this out. The reason why direct comparisons with so-called competitor devices don't work well is because the Surface lines are consolidation products, the exact opposite design and marketing tack compared to Apple. At least actual users have figured this out, if they can get past poor marketing (this round is better but not perfect) and so many "official opinions" that miss the mark.

 

[ctitanic]

Apple's innovation died with Jobs, and yes the Surface 2 will gain more market after the release of the XBOX ONE and new releases from the mayor games houses. The Surface RT just didn't have the power needed for good games.

 

[hypokondriak]

Apple's innovation died with Jobs, and yes the Surface 2 will gain more market after the release of the XBOX ONE and new releases from the mayor games houses. The Surface RT just didn't have the power needed for good games.

I about flipped out when I read that Dell said all Windows 8 apps would run on the Xbox One. Too good to be true of course because Microsoft squashed it. I hope it ends up being easy to modify apps to run because I think having the Xbox One with access to the app store would be a 10 star move. I just don't understand why nobody can fully bridge the TV yet. Apple TV = Limited. Chromecast = Limited. Roku = Limited (albeit the most open just not the apps). Xbox = Limited.

Sent from the SurfaceForums.net app for Windows 8

 

[CrippsCorner]

Yeah, the new iPads were really quite a disappointment. I think if they'd had TouchID, and started with 32GB it might have been better. Launching the new Mini at $399 is going to be a huge wake-up call for Apple. The average Joe will look and say "Uh...why does this smaller one cost as much as this bigger iPad 2?" and he'll likely buy the iPad 2. I don't know why they kept that one around.

If this goes like you say, Apple will love it as they will make more a profit from iPad 2 sales.

From the pictures at least I think the iPad Air looks pretty amazing, maybe better than the Surface 2, but it's hard to tell. I'm sure they'll be on par in terms of quality.

It was interesting to see Apple go that way and not introduce an iPad Pro, as many predicted. I think that's good though, as it differentiates the directions that Apple and Microsoft are going in. I still think it's ultimately a bad decision for Microsoft to try and rival the iPad; it's just not gonna work. However, the Surface Pro 2 really doesn't have a rival (in terms of tablets) and it's their most unique product out there. Push it!

 

[WillysJeepMan]

If this goes like you say, Apple will love it as they will make more a profit from iPad 2 sales.

From the pictures at least I think the iPad Air looks pretty amazing, maybe better than the Surface 2, but it's hard to tell. I'm sure they'll be on par in terms of quality.

It was interesting to see Apple go that way and not introduce an iPad Pro, as many predicted. I think that's good though, as it differentiates the directions that Apple and Microsoft are going in. I still think it's ultimately a bad decision for Microsoft to try and rival the iPad; it's just not gonna work. However, the Surface Pro 2 really doesn't have a rival (in terms of tablets) and it's their most unique product out there. Push it!

I've drawn a very different conclusion. I think that the SP2 is going to remain a niche product. I think that it is going to be the SP that becomes the sleeper hit.

Interesting that since hardware manufacturers have claimed that Windows RT is dead, Nokia just announces a tablet running it. Surface 2 is receiving praise from those without an agenda. The attention is shifting from "RT should support legacy apps" to "The app store needs to be beefed up". If Microsoft does something like put the Surface RT out as door-busters this Black Friday, there could very well be a lot of positive buzz about Surface and a solid turnaround in public perception.

I think that Apple tipped their hand with the release of the iPad5. Calling it the "iPad Air" (that is even thinner and lighter than the iPad4) leads me to believe that Apple will later on introduce a bluetooth TypeCover-like keyboard cover that will result in a combined thickness and weight of the iPad4.

If that does indeed come to pass, then Microsoft could be in a great position to capitalize on that. The iPad is for dinking around and consuming media (books, videos, music, blogs, etc.) and can do some light serious work. The Surface is for doing serious work and can do some light dinking around. What will prevent the iPad from doing serious work is limitations of the hardware and iOS system. The hardware is the hardware so that can't be changed... iOS with its sandboxing and lack of general printing capabilities is something that can't easily be changed.

The Surface on the other hand, has the hardware already in place to do serious work. Windows RT has the OS subsystems in place as well. The primary hurdle in using the Surface for media consumption are the apps... that SHOULD be fixable by developers if they are so inclined. I fear that there is a hardware limitation that prevents the Surface of truly being on par with the iPad as a tablet... that's the capacitive touchscreen. I think that is where Microsoft cut a corner. Drawing on the Surface with a finger is fine... with a capacitive stylus is a fail.

 

[oion]

I've drawn a very different conclusion. I think that the SP2 is going to remain a niche product. I think that it is going to be the SP that becomes the sleeper hit.

Interesting that since hardware manufacturers have claimed that Windows RT is dead, 1. Nokia just announces a tablet running it. Surface 2 is receiving praise from those without an agenda. The attention is shifting from "RT should support legacy apps" to "The app store needs to be beefed up". If Microsoft does something like put the Surface RT out as door-busters this Black Friday, there could very well be a lot of positive buzz about Surface and a solid turnaround in public perception.

I think that Apple tipped their hand with the release of the iPad5. Calling it the "iPad Air" (that is even thinner and lighter than the iPad4) leads me to believe that Apple will later on introduce a 2. bluetooth TypeCover-like keyboard cover that will result in a combined thickness and weight of the iPad4.

If that does indeed come to pass, then Microsoft could be in a great position to capitalize on that. The iPad is for dinking around and consuming media (books, videos, music, blogs, etc.) and can do some light serious work. The Surface is for doing serious work and can do some light dinking around. What will prevent the iPad from doing serious work is limitations of the hardware and iOS system. The hardware is the hardware so that can't be changed... iOS with its sandboxing and lack of general printing capabilities is something that can't easily be changed. (3)

The Surface on the other hand, has the hardware already in place to do serious work. Windows RT has the OS subsystems in place as well. The primary hurdle in using the Surface for media consumption are the apps... that SHOULD be fixable by developers if they are so inclined. 4. I fear that there is a hardware limitation that prevents the Surface of truly being on par with the iPad as a tablet... that's the capacitive touchscreen. I think that is where Microsoft cut a corner. Drawing on the Surface with a finger is fine... with a capacitive stylus is a fail.

1. Because Nokia had been developing the RT product long before the announcements from other manufacturers that they were dropping RT (you don't go around announcing concept projects, that's for sure).

2. Which will undoubtedly be lauded as truly innovative by the hypocrite reviewers.

3. Since we know now that MS intends to allow Office access to iOS/Android (I think through cloud), I'm curious how worried MS is about cross-device cannibalism of the biggest selling factor for WinRT.

4. This makes absolutely no sense. The iPad only has a capacitve touchscreen, so why would the same in Surface prevent it from being on par? You're implying pen input is much more important to you as a consumer than something like bundled Office. If you want to make a product analysis ilke that, don't bring in your personal case use bias in that way, besides which NVidia's Tegra4 solution doesn't require anything more than a capacitve screen. A far better argument is "enabling Tegra4 pen input would make Surface 2 even more superior to an iPad for productivity."

 

[WillysJeepMan]

4. This makes absolutely no sense. The iPad only has a capacitve touchscreen, so why would the same in Surface prevent it from being on par? You're implying pen input is much more important to you as a consumer than something like bundled Office. If you want to make a product analysis ilke that, don't bring in your personal case use bias in that way, besides which NVidia's Tegra4 solution doesn't require anything more than a capacitve screen. A far better argument is "enabling Tegra4 pen input would make Surface 2 even more superior to an iPad for productivity."

You are assuming that the capacitive touchscreen on the iPad is THE SAME as the Surface... it is not. The Surface's screen appears to have a lower touch resolution than the iPad. Finger writing is fine on both. Using a capacitive stylus on the iPad actually renders BETTER/FINER lines and drawing. That leads me to believe that the iPad's touch resolution is greater than needed for finger-only use. Using the same capacitive stylus on the Surface results in WORSE lines an drawing.

 

[oion]

You are assuming that the capacitive touchscreen on the iPad is THE SAME as the Surface... it is not. The Surface's screen appears to have a lower touch resolution than the iPad. Finger writing is fine on both. Using a capacitive stylus on the iPad actually renders BETTER/FINER lines and drawing. That leads me to believe that the iPad's touch resolution is greater than needed for finger-only use. Using the same capacitive stylus on the Surface results in WORSE lines an drawing.

I don't have an iPad anymore (and it probably depends on generation) to compare, but if the screen tech performance really is different, then it would be a fairer like-v-like comparison to say if the Surface had a more sensitive capacitive screen---ignoring pen input because iPads don't have that either---then if would be "on par." The only way to test is to use the same drawing app, if there is one that covers both WinRT and iOS, and the same hardware capacitive stylus on both machines.