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Is SurfacePro going to have to cut their price?

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mitchellvii

mitchellvii

Well-Known Member
Final specs and pricing just released on the ATIV Q. This is a wildly impressive machine and makes the Surface Pro look almost silly by comparison, but it also costs $350 more than the SP 128. Win for SP? Not really. Anyone who can afford $1150 for a hybrid can afford $1500 for a dramatically better one, so no, price doesn't save SP here.

ATIV Q has above 4K (3200 x 1800!) 13.3" screen, 9 hour battery life, backlit keyboard, titanium body, tons of ports, 128 gb ssd, thin, light, Haswell and the s-pen. Despite having a MUCH larger screen and physical keyboard, ATIV Q is only 3% thicker and 12% heavier than SP. Oh yeah and it also runs both Windows 8 and Android side-by-side seamlessly. On top of that they have an app where you can connect your Samsung phone and run it from your PC desktop - make phone calls, send texts, everything. Just SICK.

Unless Microsoft is prepared to dramatically cut costs on the Surface Pro II or add TONS of new features to compete, they would get crushed by devices like the ATIV Q. Like I said the $350 premium is nothing for a business user when value for the dollar is considered. I almost imagine Samsung had a conversation with MS and said, "Ok, we are prepared to go balls-out on a new Windows 8 hybrid, but you need to deep-six the Surface Pro." Maybe this is why we haven't heard even a peep from MS on a Surface Pro II?

Bottom line, with Samsung's economies of scale there is NO WAY Microsoft could create a comparable Surface Pro at the ATIV Q's price point. Just not possible. The Surface Pro made sense because it was the best W8 hybrid you could by at the time, period. No more. Game has changed. MS just got burned for a billion large with the original Surface line, you think they are going to pour billions more into trying to compete against manufacturers who have far better cost structures? It would be suicide.

** Remember, just because Microsoft can doesn't mean they should. Surface Pro did what it was intended to do, create exposure for Windows 8 and drive their hardware partners to put out quality kit. Believe me, with devices like the ATIV Q MS will sell some Windows 8 and that was the goal all along. Mission accomplished.

MS will go after the low end consumer market with RT or W8 running on the upcoming Atom replacement and leave the heavy lifting pro segment to the big boys.
 
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mlknez

Member
So they should've made a SP with more openings, kept the ports, size, weight and everything else and then somehow made it waterproof? Oh and then also made it half the price thereby ensuring that they don't even recover the cost of R&D and possibly also ship the units at a loss?

These comments are not at all grounded in reality. If they had done what you suggested, we would most certainly not ever be seeing a SP II, nor probably most of Microsoft's execs.

Also you can't compare sales of software like MS Access to hardware sales. Hardware has a much higher per unit cost. Even at $99 MS was likely still making a profit on Access sales.

I can tell that you have not been to a CES. This year, one of my companies showed several products that were made waterproof by simply using our dip. We have many companies that are coming out with our product in them, that will make them waterproof. Microsoft considered using our product, but declined. It would have made the surface waterproof. We will be showing a SurfacePro waterproofed at CES2014 in January.

I worked for Microsoft during the Access intro and can tell you that the cost was more than the retail price until Microsoft pushed the price back up to $389 after killing the competition. They just took a $900M charge because they couldn't sell the Surface products that they produced. They wouldn't have had to taken that charge if they priced the RT and Pro low enough initially.

It is always better to seed the market than to cede the market.
 
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Igor

New Member
I can tell that you have not been to a CES. This year, one of my companies showed several products that were made waterproof by simply using our dip. We have many companies that are coming out with our product in them, that will make them waterproof. Microsoft considered using our product, but declined. It would have made the surface waterproof. We will be showing a SurfacePro waterproofed at CES2014 in January.

That sounds interesting. I have indeed not been to CES. I have heard of these waterproofing dips, but how can you make a device with open ports waterproof like this? Wouldn't it just fill with water?

I worked for Microsoft during the Access intro and can tell you that the cost was more than the retail price until Microsoft pushed the price back up to $389 after killing the competition. They just took a $900M charge because they couldn't sell the Surface products that they produced. They wouldn't have had to taken that charge if they priced the RT and Pro low enough initially.

It is always better to seed the market than to cede the market.

As far as I know the $900M charge was for the Surface RTs not the Surface range as a whole. I agree that they should've priced the RT much lower considering the competitive market they were entering.

I still don't think you can compare business strategies for software and for hardware. Microsoft also relies on it's hardware partners to stay alive. It can't bite the hand that's feeding it and undercut all of their prices so heavily. Several of them were annoyed enough that they were just entering the hardware space to dress them down publicly.
 

MJS9

New Member
Final specs and pricing just released on the ATIV Q. This is a wildly impressive machine and makes the Surface Pro look almost silly by comparison, but it also costs $350 more than the SP 128. Win for SP? Not really. Anyone who can afford $1150 for a hybrid can afford $1500 for a dramatically better one, so no, price doesn't save SP here.

ATIV Q has above 4K (3200 x 1800!) 13.3" screen, 9 hour battery life, backlit keyboard, titanium body, tons of ports, 128 gb ssd, thin, light, Haswell and the s-pen. Despite having a MUCH larger screen and physical keyboard, ATIV Q is only 3% thicker and 12% heavier than SP. Oh yeah and it also runs both Windows 8 and Android side-by-side seamlessly. On top of that they have an app where you can connect your Samsung phone and run it from your PC desktop - make phone calls, send texts, everything. Just SICK.

Unless Microsoft is prepared to dramatically cut costs on the Surface Pro II or add TONS of new features to compete, they would get crushed by devices like the ATIV Q. Like I said the $350 premium is nothing for a business user when value for the dollar is considered. I almost imagine Samsung had a conversation with MS and said, "Ok, we are prepared to go balls-out on a new Windows 8 hybrid, but you need to deep-six the Surface Pro." Maybe this is why we haven't heard even a peep from MS on a Surface Pro II?

Bottom line, with Samsung's economies of scale there is NO WAY Microsoft could create a comparable Surface Pro at the ATIV Q's price point. Just not possible. The Surface Pro made sense because it was the best W8 hybrid you could by at the time, period. No more. Game has changed. MS just got burned for a billion large with the original Surface line, you think they are going to pour billions more into trying to compete against manufacturers who have far better cost structures? It would be suicide.

** Remember, just because Microsoft can doesn't mean they should. Surface Pro did what it was intended to do, create exposure for Windows 8 and drive their hardware partners to put out quality kit. Believe me, with devices like the ATIV Q MS will sell some Windows 8 and that was the goal all along. Mission accomplished.

MS will go after the low end consumer market with RT or W8 running on the upcoming Atom replacement and leave the heavy lifting pro segment to the big boys.

A lovely solution for your Access database I'm sure

SELECT *
FROM [Users]
WHERE [Clue] > 0
No records found.
 

zhenya

Active Member
Final specs and pricing just released on the ATIV Q. This is a wildly impressive machine and makes the Surface Pro look almost silly by comparison, but it also costs $350 more than the SP 128. Win for SP? Not really. Anyone who can afford $1150 for a hybrid can afford $1500 for a dramatically better one, so no, price doesn't save SP here.

ATIV Q has above 4K (3200 x 1800!) 13.3" screen, 9 hour battery life, backlit keyboard, titanium body, tons of ports, 128 gb ssd, thin, light, Haswell and the s-pen. Despite having a MUCH larger screen and physical keyboard, ATIV Q is only 3% thicker and 12% heavier than SP. Oh yeah and it also runs both Windows 8 and Android side-by-side seamlessly. On top of that they have an app where you can connect your Samsung phone and run it from your PC desktop - make phone calls, send texts, everything. Just SICK.

Unless Microsoft is prepared to dramatically cut costs on the Surface Pro II or add TONS of new features to compete, they would get crushed by devices like the ATIV Q. Like I said the $350 premium is nothing for a business user when value for the dollar is considered. I almost imagine Samsung had a conversation with MS and said, "Ok, we are prepared to go balls-out on a new Windows 8 hybrid, but you need to deep-six the Surface Pro." Maybe this is why we haven't heard even a peep from MS on a Surface Pro II?

Bottom line, with Samsung's economies of scale there is NO WAY Microsoft could create a comparable Surface Pro at the ATIV Q's price point. Just not possible. The Surface Pro made sense because it was the best W8 hybrid you could by at the time, period. No more. Game has changed. MS just got burned for a billion large with the original Surface line, you think they are going to pour billions more into trying to compete against manufacturers who have far better cost structures? It would be suicide.

** Remember, just because Microsoft can doesn't mean they should. Surface Pro did what it was intended to do, create exposure for Windows 8 and drive their hardware partners to put out quality kit. Believe me, with devices like the ATIV Q MS will sell some Windows 8 and that was the goal all along. Mission accomplished.

MS will go after the low end consumer market with RT or W8 running on the upcoming Atom replacement and leave the heavy lifting pro segment to the big boys.



The Ativ Q looks like Samsung's philosophy bundled into one big product; throw every spec at it and hope it somehow pleases everyone. The reality is that it means that often nobody is happy because it's an engineering mishmash that doesn't come together in practice.

How many people really want a 13" tablet?
The SP is already too thick and too heavy; even a small amount larger is too much.
Any provisions to make all that screen resolution usable in Desktop mode?

My prediction?

RT will be dead within 18 months.
 

jnjroach

Administrator
Staff member
The Ativ Q looks like Samsung's philosophy bundled into one big product; throw every spec at it and hope it somehow pleases everyone. The reality is that it means that often nobody is happy because it's an engineering mishmash that doesn't come together in practice.

How many people really want a 13" tablet?
The SP is already too thick and too heavy; even a small amount larger is too much.
Any provisions to make all that screen resolution usable in Desktop mode?

My prediction?

RT will be dead within 18 months.

I disagree that RT will be dead in 18 months, it may merge with the Phone OS to unify completely the ARM OS's but it won't be dead...
 

Spaniard

Active Member
I disagree that RT will be dead in 18 months, it may merge with the Phone OS to unify completely the ARM OS's but it won't be dead...
HTC HD2 proves itself a hacker's delight once again by running Windows RT | The Verge
A_JRG5VCUAENGfu.jpg
 

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