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Microsoft's device chief sees a future without three versions of Windows

CrippsCorner

Well-Known Member
See my post on the previous page dude. Apple have already started implementing iOS features into OS X, and it's heavily rumored an iOS 7 facelift will be coming to OS X next year too... it's going the way of the merge imo, but we will see!
 

Ruffles

Active Member
See my post on the previous page dude. Apple have already started implementing iOS features into OS X, and it's heavily rumored an iOS 7 facelift will be coming to OS X next year too... it's going the way of the merge imo, but we will see!

Adding iOS features to Mac OS is not the point. So you add a notification center or make them look the same. Big deal. The difference is that Apple is doing nothing to go the other direction and allow you to run full OS X applications on small devices like their iPad and iPad mini. Their vision is that your home PC (which may or may not end up looking like iOS) is where the heavy lifting is done and all their phones and tablets run specialized light versions of apps and connect to your data via cloud services. This is the exact opposite approach from MS where they are developing one single device that is the full on desktop experience when at home and a portable device on the go...with your same apps and data.

Also, if what you say is true and Apple makes OS X look like iOS, I wonder if they'll get all the crap from the tech media about how it's too confusing for users etc. like MS did with Win 8 RT and Pro. My iPad looks just like my MacBook but I cant run the same programs etc. I suspect not.
 

CrippsCorner

Well-Known Member
Well, that is a good point. One I'm sure most of us agree with, other wise we wouldn't be Surface owners! Personally, for me, having one device is ideal. My girlfriend however (a massive Apple fan) likes to use her iMac for Photoshop and Inkling, but just uses her iPad when laying in bed. I'd like it if both companies did have different approaches to be honest, makes life more interesting :)
 

Ruffles

Active Member
Well, that is a good point. One I'm sure most of us agree with, other wise we wouldn't be Surface owners! Personally, for me, having one device is ideal. My girlfriend however (a massive Apple fan) likes to use her iMac for Photoshop and Inkling, but just uses her iPad when laying in bed. I'd like it if both companies did have different approaches to be honest, makes life more interesting :)

I agree it's good that they're different visions. I guess time will tell which the market prefers. I just wish MS would do a better job conveying their vision however.
 
Adding iOS features to Mac OS is not the point. So you add a notification center or make them look the same. Big deal. The difference is that Apple is doing nothing to go the other direction and allow you to run full OS X applications on small devices like their iPad and iPad mini. Their vision is that your home PC (which may or may not end up looking like iOS) is where the heavy lifting is done and all their phones and tablets run specialized light versions of apps and connect to your data via cloud services. This is the exact opposite approach from MS where they are developing one single device that is the full on desktop experience when at home and a portable device on the go...with your same apps and data.
Look at all the things that Apple has done over the past 4 years. They have been doing things to bring the desktop/notebook experience in line with their mobile experience. For example: the app store first came to the iPhone... then they added it to the Mac. In this recent wave, they've "upgraded" OSX iWorks (which hasn't seen an update in nearly 4 years) which removed a ton of features. At the same time they upgraded iOS iWorks and added a few features... including file format compatibility. They are trying to get functional parity across all platforms, iOS, OSX, iCloud, even if it means REDUCING functionality.

Apple is "dumbing down" OSX while "beefing up" iOS. Some of it is visible to the user, but like an iceberg, the majority is hidden, and like a glacier, Apple is making this happen slowly. Convergence is where Apple has been heading. They take an unconventional approach that is generally dismissed by the mainstream tech community. Just look at the bad press they received when they announced the original iPad. Many made jokes about it and connecting it to a feminine hygiene product, calling it a glorified iPod/iPhone. Once it was released and in customers' hands, every other company stopped their tablet plans (except those already in the pipeline that were later DOA). In the end, Apple had the last laugh. Many still "don't get" what Apple is doing....



Also, if what you say is true and Apple makes OS X look like iOS, I wonder if they'll get all the crap from the tech media about how it's too confusing for users etc. like MS did with Win 8 RT and Pro. My iPad looks just like my MacBook but I cant run the same programs etc. I suspect not.
They won't. Because Apple is NOT going to make 2 tablets that visually look virtually identical but provide different functionality. Microsoft botched the Surface launch by producing 2 nearly identical tablets, giving them nearly identical names, calling both operating systems "Windows", with one of those tablets not being able to run 98% of available Windows software packages.

It is common to claim that media bias is the cause, but any objective observer can see that what Microsoft did was confusing. Just like showing every Surface device in every video and print ad attached to a Type Cover and NOT including it in the price of a Surface.

Microsoft was impatient. Rather than building convergence slowly and intelligently, they dropped the whole load with Windows 8.0. It was a shock to people. And it made little sense to have a touch-optimized UI for devices without touchscreens. Including a touchscreen on a notebook is nonsensical to most people (those that I know anyways). I just bought a Lenovo notebook this past weekend, kind of an ultrabook formfactor at introductory pricing. It has a touchscreen. That makes no sense to me at all. The Surface however, makes perfect sense.

Eventually, Microsoft will get it. But not without a lot of bad press.
 

oion

Well-Known Member
They won't. Because Apple is NOT going to make 2 tablets that visually look virtually identical but provide different functionality. Microsoft botched the Surface launch by producing 2 nearly identical tablets, giving them nearly identical names, calling both operating systems "Windows", with one of those tablets not being able to run 98% of available Windows software packages.

It is common to claim that media bias is the cause, but any objective observer can see that what Microsoft did was confusing. Just like showing every Surface device in every video and print ad attached to a Type Cover and NOT including it in the price of a Surface.

MS did totally drop the ball in 2012 per marketing, but I expect pundits to figure it out too, because the two-prong approach is common in consumer habits (official marketing vs. reviews). They still haven't, for the most part. But then MS still has the confusing ads out there like the one that shows Surface and then pans to some guy using it with a stylus--obviously the Pro. The hell, man.

I'm not sure what MS could have done with the naming issue. They dropped RT from Surface RT because it was 'confusing', but then what about Windows RT? It stands for run-time, but no one knows what the hell that is. I wish they figured out a good parallelism because Surface RT/Windows RT vs. Surface Pro/Windows Pro makes more sense than Surface 2/Windows RT vs. Surface Pro 2/Windows Pro with the old batch being just Surface/Windows RT now.

Microsoft was impatient. Rather than building convergence slowly and intelligently, they dropped the whole load with Windows 8.0. It was a shock to people. And it made little sense to have a touch-optimized UI for devices without touchscreens. Including a touchscreen on a notebook is nonsensical to most people (those that I know anyways). I just bought a Lenovo notebook this past weekend, kind of an ultrabook formfactor at introductory pricing. It has a touchscreen. That makes no sense to me at all. The Surface however, makes perfect sense.

Eventually, Microsoft will get it. But not without a lot of bad press.

Definitely, their biggest mistake there was first releasing Windows 8 long before the touchscreen "model" devices in October 2012; on top of that, despite the awesome hatred people had for the UI on their non-touch desktops, MS didn't release the little UI retouches until a year later (like matching background, the fake start button). I think they're just banking on sheer gorilla-inertia, which is very risky in the consumer space but not as much in the corporate space (which evolves slowly anyway, so maybe Windows 8 will be better for non-touch corp environments in the next few years when they finally start to adopt--hey, my department just got Windows 7!).

Win8.1 is probably what the 8.0 release in August last year should've been; at least the fake start button would remind people that the start menu = start screen. But by gum, it's still annoying to use without a touchscreen.

My dad recently bought a crappy-ass netbook for $200. He was so proud because it was fucking cheap. Some HP thing. Well, you get what you pay for. The pixels are so huge with poor resolution that they're completely visible and the picture is grainy. There's a dent in the touchpad. The most crappy lump of plastic ever. But the worst part was trying to use Windows 8 without a touchscreen. The store app popped up at some point while I was visiting them and it wanted to install Windows 8.1, which is all great and stuff, but for a good moment there I couldn't figure out how to CLOSE the app because it's not like there's a "X" button anymore. And someone like my father who doesn't understand what AV and firewall software are for would never figure out keyboard shortcuts. Ugh, really.


Anyway, I don't expect Windows RT to "die" the way the pundits want it to, though I expect no matter how Microsoft handles the merging, the so-called journalists will still want to use those keywords for more traffic. MS can't win there. So far all we have now are rumors and more rumors, blah blah "internal sources," so I'm not even going to bother.
 
Anyway, I don't expect Windows RT to "die" the way the pundits want it to, though I expect no matter how Microsoft handles the merging, the so-called journalists will still want to use those keywords for more traffic. MS can't win there. So far all we have now are rumors and more rumors, blah blah "internal sources," so I'm not even going to bother.
Pundits have a vested interest now in actively killing RT... they have to "prove" that they were correct.

Microsoft already committed to 3 more years of RT support. I still believe that the greatest thing that Microsoft did to turn the public's perception around was to get the RT as a Black Friday doorbuster. Everyone I know that has bought one is gushing uncontrollably over it. Pausing only momentarily to ask "why don't more people know about the RT? It blows the iPad away!" NONE OF THEM are asking why it doesn't support x86 legacy apps. They're excited by Office. They're excited by the connectivity options. Essentially all of the Surface-exclusive features and accessories.

I think that is where Microsoft fell short in its confidence of RT. It seems like they felt the need to make a psychological connect between RT and Pro... it's turning out that it wasn't necessary.
 

kristalsoldier

Well-Known Member
Pundits have a vested interest now in actively killing RT... they have to "prove" that they were correct.

Microsoft already committed to 3 more years of RT support. I still believe that the greatest thing that Microsoft did to turn the public's perception around was to get the RT as a Black Friday doorbuster. Everyone I know that has bought one is gushing uncontrollably over it. Pausing only momentarily to ask "why don't more people know about the RT? It blows the iPad away!" NONE OF THEM are asking why it doesn't support x86 legacy apps. They're excited by Office. They're excited by the connectivity options. Essentially all of the Surface-exclusive features and accessories.

I think that is where Microsoft fell short in its confidence of RT. It seems like they felt the need to make a psychological connect between RT and Pro... it's turning out that it wasn't necessary.

Very interesting! I don't think MS is lacking confidence in RT. What they did do - according to me - is to raise the stakes of the game with the twin release of 8.1RT (which made a massive difference) and with the release of Surface 2 (which also made a huge difference). I think the pairing of 8.1RT and the Surface 2 is a killer combination. So, all the folks that you are referring to who can't stop gushing over the RT (from the Black Friday deals) and 8.1RT will be even more please once they move up and onto the Surface 2 running 8.1RT. Now, all MS has to do is (1) beef up their ad campaign (with comparative ads, but not negative ads), convince developers to keep up the stream of apps, and issue periodic firmware updates to the RT (to the extent possible) and to the Surface 2. The other thing is for MS to push out a Surface Mini RT tablet.
 

oion

Well-Known Member
Pundits have a vested interest now in actively killing RT... they have to "prove" that they were correct.

Microsoft already committed to 3 more years of RT support. I still believe that the greatest thing that Microsoft did to turn the public's perception around was to get the RT as a Black Friday doorbuster. Everyone I know that has bought one is gushing uncontrollably over it. Pausing only momentarily to ask "why don't more people know about the RT? It blows the iPad away!" NONE OF THEM are asking why it doesn't support x86 legacy apps. They're excited by Office. They're excited by the connectivity options. Essentially all of the Surface-exclusive features and accessories.

I think that is where Microsoft fell short in its confidence of RT. It seems like they felt the need to make a psychological connect between RT and Pro... it's turning out that it wasn't necessary.

Oh yeah, so aren't those Surfaces from Black Friday all sold out? Where's all the news about that? :D Bah.

There are a whole bunch of new reviews at places like Best Buy for the 32GB RT, and the vast majority are positive (the negative ones are the usual "oh, I can't install blah" and something about holding it in landscape mode and hitting the volume button, not a problem remember people complaining about before). That's a...start, I guess.
 

ChemCat

New Member
Oh yeah, so aren't those Surfaces from Black Friday all sold out? Where's all the news about that? :D Bah.

There are a whole bunch of new reviews at places like Best Buy for the 32GB RT, and the vast majority are positive (the negative ones are the usual "oh, I can't install blah" and something about holding it in landscape mode and hitting the volume button, not a problem remember people complaining about before). That's a...start, I guess.

This is proof of how biased the media is with the surface. There's been nonstop coverage of ipad sales even though people got gift cards instead of price drops. There's been zero coverage of surface sales.
 

Nuspieds

Active Member
This is proof of how biased the media is with the surface. There's been nonstop coverage of ipad sales even though people got gift cards instead of price drops. There's been zero coverage of surface sales.
I agree, but that's just the nature of the media: Cyclically they fall in love with someone else who can do no wrong.

Way back when, for the longest while, Microsoft could do no wrong in their eyes and with all the ad spaces that Microsoft purchased, for example, those publications kept on promoting Microsoft. But now Microsoft is feeling what it is like to be on the other side of the fence.

In the end, though, sometimes consumer word-of-mouth is good enough to propel a competitive product from underdog to top-tier status; however, most often it is not and it is up to the vendor to ensure that they are at the top of their game with their marketing campaign. When your competitor is the darling of the press, then you better make sure that you have an A-game marketing campaign.

Although Microsoft's Surface marketing has vastly improved over the original, they still need to continue to improve and do more; after all, a long time back, they lost their "media darling" status.
 
Oh yeah, so aren't those Surfaces from Black Friday all sold out? Where's all the news about that? :D Bah.

There are a whole bunch of new reviews at places like Best Buy for the 32GB RT, and the vast majority are positive (the negative ones are the usual "oh, I can't install blah" and something about holding it in landscape mode and hitting the volume button, not a problem remember people complaining about before). That's a...start, I guess.
That (customer reviews on store sites like Best Buy) is not where the real story is being told. This is 2007 all over again, I tell ya. The excitement over the Zune 30 black friday doorbusters wasn't covered by the tech media, nor was it reflected in online customer reviews. It was exclusively word of mouth. white hot demand for the Zune 30 combined with the lack of inventory for the Zune 80, made quite an impact on holiday shopping.

Surface 2 devices are hard to find in the stores. I've lost count of how many friends, family members, and acquaintances have been hounding me to help them find a Surface RT (at Black Friday prices). It is actually greater for the RT than it was for the Zune 30 back then.

Microsoft needs to ramp up inventory of the Surface 2. They need to continue to provide updates for the RT. Every satisfied RT owner is going to be a Surface 2 (or 3) owner and pass down the RT. Hopefully Microsoft learned their lesson and they'll really take care of these RT customers.
 

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