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N-Trig jitter is driving me nuts!

The N-Trig Jittery line problem will:


  • Total voters
    12

g3g3n3

New Member
Does anybody have a solution for the n-trig jitter when drawing slowly? i just dropped almost 4K on the Surface Book and was expecting it to work FLAWLESSLY. When i was testing it at the NYC MS store i didn't notice...but once i got home and started to try doing some real drawing work it REALLY became obvious that this is a serious issue, and after looking all over the internet, I'm starting to think that in fact n-trig is just a defective technology.

For any of you not familiar with the problem, try drawing a line at an angle (not vertical or horizontal) very slowly. As you move the pen, the cursor / brush tip will shift around under the pen, producing a wavy line. If you are not sure if it's just the steadiness of your hand you can use a ruler. The best way to describe it would be to compare it to the brush "jitter" effect that you can set for brushes in Photoshop. Except, in this case it is a VERY UNWANTED jitter. I just want to draw nice clean lines at any angle, WITHOUT JITTER.

Technical people: please don't waste our time explaining the different technologies. I just want to draw a STRAIGHT LINE. Otherwise I like the Book, but this defect is just too much. Unless this is addressed I cannot recommend this product to anyone, and in fact I'll be telling all of my students not to bother with this until it's fixed.

When will it be fixed?

Below is an example.

The cursor and line "worms" around under the pen tip...and seems to oscillate in a regular jittery pattern.


View attachment 7062
 

mkenny28

New Member
I didn't vote because I am in the Who Knows if they will ever fix it camp. This has been a problem since the SP3 so regardless they have dragged their feet on a fix. N-trig says their tech shouldn't be doing this but I don't know if it is a simple driver fix or if it is screen/pixel related or something else. I am sure you have found a couple threads about this over on Microsoft's forums. Hopefully, now that they have 4 Surface products (SP3, S3, SP4, SB) out in the wild with the same issue, enough people will be angry enough to get them to fix it (which is sad, it shouldn't come to that). This generation of products was really marketed heavily to engineers, designers, artists, etc so I am pretty sure the complaints are going to keep rolling in.
 

Migi

Member
I don't think Microsoft will ever fix this, so for you digital artists you can go back to Wacom and iPad Pro. Microsoft says "sayonara".

The pen remains perfectly fine for One Note, doesn't need perfectly straight lines. I suspect N-Trig tech is vastly inferior to Wacom and will never catch up.
 

Moonsurface

Super Moderator
Staff member
How fast do you have to go to get no jitter? I saw the mobile tech review of the Surface book and she said the same about jitter but she said it's really only a problem when drawing really slowly - I can't imagine how slow that is and what you'd be doing to want to draw a line that slowly. I'm not being facetious here I'm just interested to know.

I'm not an artist but I like drawing on my SP3 and with the older style pen which I believe is much improved in on the SP4- I can imagine perhaps in more technical / professional drawing where accuracy is much more necessary this could be a problem but presumably in technical drawing there'd be straight line tools you could use instead of freehanding it.
 

Migi

Member
That's how n-trig works, period. The only way this will ever change is if they go back to Wacom. End of story. Anything you're seeing that is smoother, is all software interpretation.

The actual lines drawn very slowly with an n-trig will always be jittery, as it uses a grid system and what you're seeing is your line being matched to the grid.

http://www.walkermobile.com/December_2006_ID_Cornucopia_Of_Touch_Technology.pdf
How do you know Microsoft won't improve the N-Trig tech in the next 12 months? Do you have some crystal ball?
 

gootdude

New Member
It's been years of the same thing, and they'd have to invent completely new technology. Not impossible, but I'm saying switching back to Wacom is the ideal choice for artists perspective.

The current tech easily works for 99% of the users, and so I don't think you should expect some crazy breakthrough from Microsoft on this front.
 
OP
G

g3g3n3

New Member
I didn't vote because I am in the Who Knows if they will ever fix it camp. This has been a problem since the SP3 so regardless they have dragged their feet on a fix. N-trig says their tech shouldn't be doing this but I don't know if it is a simple driver fix or if it is screen/pixel related or something else. I am sure you have found a couple threads about this over on Microsoft's forums. Hopefully, now that they have 4 Surface products (SP3, S3, SP4, SB) out in the wild with the same issue, enough people will be angry enough to get them to fix it (which is sad, it shouldn't come to that). This generation of products was really marketed heavily to engineers, designers, artists, etc so I am pretty sure the complaints are going to keep rolling in.
Thanks for your response. I added your "We need to get a following behind this" response to the list, please vote!.

Like many other artists out there have been let down by Microsoft. I really fell for their marketing for designer & artists too...only to be left with a defective technology like N-trig.

For anybody reading this, please voice your opinion on other boards and MIcrosoft. I am going to complain like hell until this is fixed. They should have this pen tech working NOW.

If Microsoft wants the creative community behind them they need to address our concerns in a responsive manner. We are already on SP4! No relief in sight for a PEN THAT WORKS!
I didn't vote because I am in the Who Knows if they will ever fix it camp. This has been a problem since the SP3 so regardless they have dragged their feet on a fix. N-trig says their tech shouldn't be doing this but I don't know if it is a simple driver fix or if it is screen/pixel related or something else. I am sure you have found a couple threads about this over on Microsoft's forums. Hopefully, now that they have 4 Surface products (SP3, S3, SP4, SB) out in the wild with the same issue, enough people will be angry enough to get them to fix it (which is sad, it shouldn't come to that). This generation of products was really marketed heavily to engineers, designers, artists, etc so I am pretty sure the complaints are going to keep rolling in.
Thanks for your response. I added your "We need to get a following behind this" response to the list, please vote!.
I also added, "Microsoft doesn't care about artists, fixing N-Trig is a pipe dream." and gave the ability to select multiple answers.

Like many other artists out there have been let down by Microsoft. I really fell for their marketing for designer & artists too...only to be left with a defective technology like N-trig.

For anybody reading this, please voice your opinion on other boards and Microsoft. I am going to complain like hell until this is fixed. They should have this pen tech working NOW.

If Microsoft wants the creative community behind them they need to address our concerns in a responsive manner. We are already on SP4! No relief in sight for a PEN THAT WORKS!
 
OP
G

g3g3n3

New Member
How fast do you have to go to get no jitter? I saw the mobile tech review of the Surface book and she said the same about jitter but she said it's really only a problem when drawing really slowly - I can't imagine how slow that is and what you'd be doing to want to draw a line that slowly. I'm not being facetious here I'm just interested to know.

I'm not an artist but I like drawing on my SP3 and with the older style pen which I believe is much improved in on the SP4- I can imagine perhaps in more technical / professional drawing where accuracy is much more necessary this could be a problem but presumably in technical drawing there'd be straight line tools you could use instead of freehanding it.
Artists and designers frequently have to more the pen very slowly for cleaning up artwork and adding precise details. It is perhaps more important than the levels of detail. Architects, designers, engineers, artists ALL need a high level of precision. This should be taken for granted by Microsoft...do you think all people just write notes with OneNote?

As a specific example, illustrators often have to do an "overdrawing" on a sketch to clean up lines and make their work look more professional...these are often done slowly at times. If the line you are trying to make nice and clean is "WORMING" around under your pen, it's impossible.
 
OP
G

g3g3n3

New Member
That's how n-trig works, period. The only way this will ever change is if they go back to Wacom. End of story. Anything you're seeing that is smoother, is all software interpretation.

The actual lines drawn very slowly with an n-trig will always be jittery, as it uses a grid system and what you're seeing is your line being matched to the grid.

http://www.walkermobile.com/December_2006_ID_Cornucopia_Of_Touch_Technology.pdf
Thanks for your reply. So, basically what you are saying is that it is a defective technology that cannot be used for precise work. Microsoft should be up front about this instead of lying to the creative community about how great their products are.
 
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