Start Menu Reviver

[mitchellvii]

I'm a Start8 fan. They keep it simple.

 

[DOS]

I'm a Start8 fan. They keep it simple.

I actually did check Start8 out based on your recommendation, and although I don't want to go back to the Win 7 Start Button, I did like the Win 8 Style Menu they have.

However, you do have me convinced that Windows 8.1 will bring back the Start Button... So I'll wait to see what that's like.

BTW: I get the impression we (as Windows 8 users) might be seeing Windows 8.1 in July? Does that sound right?

 

[J515OP]

how on Earth would you know that only "a very few vocal people" are unhappy with Windows 8 missing a Start Button? You use that as a premise for every argument you make and yet there is no possible way you can know this. For all you know, the majority of Windows 8 users want the Start Button back. Looking at the empirical evidence (the fact MS is thinking of bringing it back in some form) isn't THAT the more likely scenario rather than your "vocal minority" fantasy?

How on Earth would you know it is a majority? There is no possible way you can know this.

Why should users have to seek out aftermarket solutions to make a brand new OS usable? People who are technically proficient such as ourselves don't mind applying an aftermarket hack, but the average person wouldn't get near it for fear of "breaking something in their magic box".

You do realize this is exactly what apps are and how people use them right? What Apple and Google each make about a dozen apps and they have how many hundreds of thousands that are exactly "aftermarket solutions" for the OS? Even legacy apps, ever use an alternate browser? Adobe anything (Flash, Reader, Photoshop)? How about a file back up app? Registry Cleaner? Anti-virus software??? Last I checked those are common after market solutions to making an OS usable.

Despite being under constant attack by those such as yourself for my opinions about Windows 8's deficiencies, it appears based upon numerous press reports to this point that Microsoft agrees with me and not you.

Wow, I guess you took that personally. I never said you. You asked why and I provided a simple answer in the general.

In other words, I am right, you are wrong, proof's in the pudding, next.

Well first of all you have no idea how the Start button if it comes back is going to be implemented. You have let it be known you are fearful it will simply call up the Start screen. So how are you right about what MS is doing if nobody even knows what that is yet? But I am sure your are right MS is clearly listening to everything you say and taking that exact action. I mean obviously they have widely publicized that they agree with mitchellvii and are directly implementing all his solutions

Putting everything else aside, let's just say MS makes every single change you desire. Do you really think it will completely turn PC sales around the way all of the "people who know" said Windows 8 was supposed to do? Do you think Windows mitchellviii © with gesture features coming will provide double digit PC growth in the next quarter? Do you think the majority of enterprises will suddenly decide this the Start button is exactly what they were missing and all place their orders to begin upgrading immediately? I am pretty sure I do know what is the more likely scenario and what is just fantasy

 

[DOS]

On a side note, who is “General Failure” and why is he reading my hard disk?

 

[J515OP]

On a side note, who is “General Failure” and why is he reading my hard disk?

Wasn't he the guy in charge of the super soldier programs that produced Captain America and Wolverine? Do you have any mutant info on there

 

[machistmo]

8.1 Cant happen fast enough.....

Because of bloggers looking for something to nit pick and a few very vocal people who even when there are multiple choices to replace the start button continue to rail on and on about how it is missing creating the impression that nobody has been able to nail a sophisticated all encompassing replacement for the very formidable start button that only MS can produce?

I wouldn't call it NIT picking - Some analysts are calling Windows 8 the VISTA2 of the OS world. Others are comparing it to New Coke, if your old enough to remember this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke The Metro Interface being shoved down people throats has been a complete (pretty complete) disaster for MS. They are revamping Windows as a result. 8.1 isn't rocket science. They were told 'WE HATE THIS' enough to revamp the software. I would say a few nit picker's is a Drastic understatement.

What pisses me off more is their insistence that Metro be Omni present in my almost Metro-less App environment. I should have the option to run as I used to and move towards Metro as it actually becomes a reality in my life. I just opened Bing News and its a blank white screen, so I rebooted and opened it again, same result, refresh? Blank white screen. This is a CORE Metro app and it does NOT appear to work or at least in any reliable way. Most of the Metro Apps are not the best, some are so bad that they almost feel like school projects more than they do release worthy apps.

I run Desktop Apps at work and home for the most part and from what I have seen of the Metro Apps so far, I wont be running to embrace this wonky thing anytime soon. Again, in trying to run in two directions at once, Microsoft has delivered an underwhelming computing experience. I am used to the interface and get around just fine in the space but I would not say this is by any means the iPad that you can give to Grandma with 100% confidence that she will figure it out. And I hated my iPad.

If that's what they were going for they missed the target. If they were going for enterprise customers, what the hell would you jump to 8 for if 7 is under support until 2020?

So the enterprise is not embracing this and consumers are not RUSHING out to buy it, who does that leave again?

I love my Pro and I like Windows 8 enough to continue using it, but lets just face it, it needs work, SERIOUS work.

8.1 cant happen fast enough IMHO.

 

[machistmo]

How on Earth would you know it is a majority? There is no possible way you can know this.



You do realize this is exactly what apps are and how people use them right? What Apple and Google each make about a dozen apps and they have how many hundreds of thousands that are exactly "aftermarket solutions" for the OS? Even legacy apps, ever use an alternate browser? Adobe anything (Flash, Reader, Photoshop)? How about a file back up app? Registry Cleaner? Anti-virus software??? Last I checked those are common after market solutions to making an OS usable.



Wow, I guess you took that personally. I never said you. You asked why and I provided a simple answer in the general.



Well first of all you have no idea how the Start button if it comes back is going to be implemented. You have let it be known you are fearful it will simply call up the Start screen. So how are you right about what MS is doing if nobody even knows what that is yet? But I am sure your are right MS is clearly listening to everything you say and taking that exact action. I mean obviously they have widely publicized that they agree with mitchellvii and are directly implementing all his solutions

Putting everything else aside, let's just say MS makes every single change you desire. Do you really think it will completely turn PC sales around the way all of the "people who know" said Windows 8 was supposed to do? Do you think Windows mitchellviii © with gesture features coming will provide double digit PC growth in the next quarter? Do you think the majority of enterprises will suddenly decide this the Start button is exactly what they were missing and all place their orders to begin upgrading immediately? I am pretty sure I do know what is the more likely scenario and what is just fantasy

I am only going to comment on your last statement about the Start button magically fixing sales. I do NOT believe that it will completely turn sales around, but it might generate enough press, IF (HUGE WORD THERE) IF they get it right to get people to take another look at Windows 8 based machines. Talk about F*^$(*#g up by the numbers here. I think it could be fairly stated that everything with Windows 8 so far could be used to teach a class on HOW NOT TO LAUNCH AN OPERATING SYSTEM 101.

I think they knew the Enterprise would not go running after 8 and so focused on the consumer market here, but WOW did they fall on their faces here. I mean it evokes images of that lady text-walkling into that mall fountain when I think about it.

[video=youtube;ZXYY_ep5Nh0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXYY_ep5Nh0[/video]

 

[mitchellvii]

Windows 8 has been a clear example of when hubris trumps functionality. Starting back with Office 2007, somebody in a position of authority at MS who happens to REALLY like big clunky icons and REALLY hates menus started calling the shots.

The benefit of menus? I can go 3 layers deep without moving my mouse or visual focus more than 2 inches (in other words, not at all). With icons (read Ribbons or Tiles) to go 3 layers deep I have to flip back and forth between 3 or more screens spanning my entire desktop (if I can find what I am looking for at all). And MS explanation that people "HATED" menus and "LOVE" ribbons because it is so much "EASIER" is about as honest as the research saying nobody used the Start Button.

All this trouble began when MS decided they needed to be Apple, much as Coke decided they needed to be Pepsi. That didn't work either. Now if MS had stuck with "being Apple" so far as having separate Desktop vs Mobile OS's then they stood a good chance, but MS finally decided to display some originality by going one-size-fits-all. The problem with one-size-fits-all anything is that it doesn't fit anyone perfectly.

Anyway, I think with 8.1 Windows may fix this (hope so) and could do very well as a result. We'll see. Hubris is a hard thing to get past when admitting you were wrong is so difficult.

** If Microsoft didn't believe the Start Button would improve sales, why are the considering putting it back?

 

[machistmo]

They should be focusing on making the Desktop more touch friendly and blending in something OTHER than Metro. Metro sucks. NOT ONE OF MY CORE APPS will load this morning. NEWS FINANCE WEATHER - NOTHING WORKS FROM METRO. Why ? I have no idea. I have removed them using the uninstall button, which I am fairly certain does nothing, and then reinstalled them, to find their tiles in EXACTLY the same place they were before removal. METRO SUCKS, the more I use it, the more I want break something IRL. It is just plain bad.

 

[Wayne Orwig]

Glad I was able to figure it out.

 

[J515OP]

I wouldn't call it NIT picking - Some analysts are calling Windows 8 the VISTA2 of the OS world. Others are comparing it to New Coke, if your old enough to remember this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke The Metro Interface being shoved down people throats has been a complete (pretty complete) disaster for MS. They are revamping Windows as a result. 8.1 isn't rocket science. They were told 'WE HATE THIS' enough to revamp the software. I would say a few nit picker's is a Drastic understatement.

What pisses me off more is their insistence that Metro be Omni present in my almost Metro-less App environment. I should have the option to run as I used to and move towards Metro as it actually becomes a reality in my life.
8.1 cant happen fast enough IMHO.

Machistom, I could disagree more. You are exactly proving the point about the bloggers in my opinion. This is far from Vista or New Coke. Those were actually fiascoes (which incidentally led to more following sales). Windows 8 numbers are on par With Windows 7 in a time of negative PC growth. While this is not overwhelmingly good it is better than contracting along side the market and is at least holding the line for MS which seems to be doing ok according to their recent financials.

Ok I get it you hate Metro but the funny thing is that it isn't forced on you. You can read dozens of comments here and around the web of people who stay in desktop all of the time. You need one click to get to the desktop and that is it. Windows Blue may even fix that one click. That is hardly Metro being forced down your throat. Don't want to use the Bing app? Open IE from your desktop and set your home page to Bing. Done

Not liking Windows 8 is one thing and if you don'y, you don't. The numbers don't show it to be a failure and any blogger who thinks it should turn the PC industry on a dime and has failed to do that because of a Start button is nit picking and not looking at reality.

You and Mitchell both realize that Windows 8.1 isn't going to be Windows 7 v2 right? It is still going to be more of the same Windows 8 stuff and even deeper integration and functions of the Windows 8 stuff even if a couple of legacy things to come back.

JP

 

[J515OP]

The benefit of menus? I can go 3 layers deep without moving my mouse or visual focus more than 2 inches (in other words, not at all). With icons (read Ribbons or Tiles) to go 3 layers deep I have to flip back and forth between 3 or more screens spanning my entire desktop (if I can find what I am looking for at all).

You realize this statement is completely wrong don't you? No, I guess you don't. The reason you go deep into menus is because things cascade down a tree of choices and those choices are related. The same is true of ribbons. To go three layers deep you start with one item, move to a related item and then to another related item all in the same spot. There is no difference in drilling down the levels. The biggest differences is that for each major related group the tabs are spread across the screen so at the highest level you have the most showing and have to drill down less. That is the power and efficiency of ribbons and how they actually work. The less you dig the more efficient it is. The same argument can be made for the start button and its functionality. The less you dig the more efficient it is.