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The Inexplicable Choices of MS...


Active Member
You know the most inexplicable choice that I think MS has made? For devices like the Surface where internal storage drives are at a premium in terms of space, the inability to integrate the SD card is mind-boggling. I mean, come on, to link contents of the SD card to the Libraries, one has to jump through a lot of hoops. Why? Is there a technical reason as to why MS ignored to set this up?
Panos Panay actually admitted this was an oversight and stated "we will fix that". Pretty ridiculous that windows phone 8 can do this but the Pro 8 full blown OS can't . 100% agree


Active Member
Adding metro office won't mean the desktop vanishes , they will need to make most new and existing work with metro before the desktop goes away. Metro is a desktop with giant icons, limited wallpaper choices and almost no ability to customize it. Yay?! No


New Member
So says the guy who probably still has a rotary phone and a Beta or VCR. The desktop will be gone before 2015.


New Member
This isn't an issue for everyone and I find it fascinating that Surface users rant about this while iPad users seem content with their magic covers that also offer just one setting.

Not quite true. The iPad cover can be used in two positions, upright vertical and angled horizontal. I wish the Surface could do the second position also.


1 - I haven't missed it, I like just pressing the windows button and typing to search everything. If the start had been there I would probably never tried the new ways and so I understand why they did it. I agree it should be an option though.
2 - The great thing about the surface (pro anyway) being a full version of windows is you can install whichever you like!
3 - I'm an excel man...
4 - Er so they add a feature that other tablets dont have and thats a fail.... give an a 1 angle kickstand over no kickstand any day thank you.
5 - So you would like the device to be bigger to store the pen....? Have you seen the pictures of how much they have crammed every millimeter in this thing?!?!
6 - Yes... yes I would like better multi monitor support too.


Super Moderator
1) THE START BUTTON: This is an easy one. Is there anyone actually glad to see the Start Button go? Was the Start Button one of those things Windows 7 users were clamoring to get rid of? Yes you can now add one aftermarket (thank God), but it should be native. Something is seriously wrong with a development team that INTENTIONALLY destroys what was arguably the best most popular feature of their prior OS. Does anyone doubt that W8 sales would have been wildly better had they kept the Start Button? But here's the thing, MS doesn't care about sales, they care about their "vision". Not OUR vision, THEIR vision. They dumped the Start Button because they wanted to make using desktop so uncomfortable we would be FORCED to adopt Metro, and once we did, well then we would all see how lovely it is and thank them for holding a gun to our heads.

rlon47 your post is so full of wrong that I feel the need to respond to each comment individually:

Lol, seriously? No one except geeks care about the missing Start Button? Have you noticed that Windows 8 sales SUCK? As a business owner let me tell you that one of the main reasons enterprises aren't adopting Windows 8 is the lack of the Start Button. StarDock has a HUGE bestseller with their Start8 Start Button replacement. You are making the common logical fallacy that just because something isn't important to you or your circle of friends it isn't important to anyone.

Ho, ho Mitchellvii:
Are you seriously suggesting that Windows 8 sales suck because of the Start button? That is an excuse that has to be the most original I've heard. I actually can suggest far more important reasons for disappointing sales: the general suckiness of the economy, the growth of cheap tablet devices, the failure of OEM's to put touch devices on the shelves, Microsoft spending too little on education and training of sales staff and the general public about the radical new look and operation. All of these are the real reasons for slower than expected sales of Windows 8, which will nevertheless still surpass all versions combined of MacOS later this year.

The Start button is NOT coming back, sorry. I hope they CAN solve the extended screen issue to your satisfaction. I doubt they will be able to fix the problem of the charging cord being dislodged while using the Pro in bed.

Honestly mitchellvii you are in the minority when it comes to the Start button. MS's stats show that it is a feature that simply is getting used less and less. Why keep it around for the few when the majority moved on in Windows 7? This might help you see MS's side.


If you must have the Start button back I suggest checking this post http://www.surfaceforums.net/forum/...4414-inexplicable-choices-ms-2.html#post24489 or this thread http://www.surfaceforums.net/forum/...iscussion/4427-why-all-start-button-fuss.html or getting Stardock. Problem solved :) In the end the fixes are pretty easy for the lack of a Start button.

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Well-Known Member
Interesting discussion. Coming from the fact that I support so many people using PCs and laptops I can tell you that the people using Office 2013 have yet to figure out how to be productive. I asked one of my vendor salespeople the day to go look at a copy and the next time I spoke with him he said he didn't believe he was looking at Microsoft Office. Anyone who thinks that everyone doesn't care about the start button needs to think again. Yes, I use it, and yes, I'm a geek, but I've had my share of new laptop users get really upset at not having start button. After having to listen to them long enough I sent them a link to Classic Menu. At least that's free.

The best use of Windows 8 without a start button is either on a tablet phone laptop with a touchscreen or desktop with a touchscreen. But then, that's just me.


Super Moderator
Overall, I like and am comfortable with the Modern UI but "brilliant" and "visionary" are certainly not words I'd use to describe it. :LOL:

The big frustrations that I would add to your list are:

7) TILE FOLDERS: The only way to organize tiles is to create groups. Thus, you have an ever-expanding, horizontally-scrolling set of tiles on the Start screen. Uggh! :mad: The more organized you get, the more groups you end up creating, the more scrolling to the right you have to do, especially to get the icons of newly-installed apps so that you can move them into their appropriate groups. Awful! Yes, there's a zoom out feature, but it is still a ridiculous implementation. As it stands right now, I could not replicate my old Windows 7 Start menu structure on the Windows 8 Start screen because I'd have too many groups and the horizontal scrolling would be ridiculous, so I'm doing the best I can to minimize the number of groups I have on the Start screen. I'm "okay" with the setup I have, but without a doubt, I wish I had the folder-type drill-down capabilities on the Start screen.

8) TILE ORGANIZATION: Have you ever tried to organize your tiles? The first time I did, my immediate reaction was disbelief! I couldn't believe that someone thought that it made sense! I should be able to move around and organize my tiles within the group as I please. None of this two columns at a time nonsense or however it works. Totally awful! So I lose folder-organization capabilities and then it becomes an art to organize my application tiles. Absolutely ridiculous!

I would also like folders but have you zoomed all the way out? This essentially gives you folders.



Active Member
I would also like folders but have you zoomed all the way out? This essentially gives you folders.
Yes, I zoom out and, no, that's not essentially folders...that's an index! :LOL:

The index is a great feature, but we truly need folder-level organization. My Start screen is not as organized as my legacy Start menu and I really miss that organization. Worse, as I get more and more Modern UI apps, my Start screen gets busier and busier.


Super Moderator
Well it sort of is folders functionally since each of those touch tiles represents a group of apps, ergo a "folder" of apps. If you organize your apps so that the index groups your "folder apps" under the index tiles, there you go. True folders would of course be better but this is an alternate. Of course it requires swiping up, touching all apps, zooming out, touching the "folder" or index tile and then choosing the app from the "folder contents" or list. At the end of the day it is a lot easier to use groups zoom out and jump to the group you want. It is what it is for now and MS seems to be avoiding folders for whatever reason :(



Active Member
I dont know about you Windows 8 nontouch screen users, but I've been using Windows 8 Pro on my desktop, which is not a touch screen and it works great and I have no complaints about it. The right-button of your mouse will become your best best friend. Some people complain that any computer with Windows 8 requires a touch screen monitor....uh not true. You just need to master the move of the right-click and you're in business. It's not that hard people.