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What makes Microsoft so slow?

T-Bob

New Member
Ok, I will play. I have worked for a fortune 500 CE company for 20 years in Marketing, Product Planning, and Sales so I have a bit of experience in some of these matters but in no way will I claim to be an expert on the challenges and goals MS or Apple have. Having said that, EVERY company markets its products based on goals that it alone sets and understands. There are companies that value market share above all else and they will literally sell below cost to get it. There are companies that value being niche, cache brands and they will forego sales to hold quality and pricing high. And there are brands that try to market to both ends of the spectrum, often using the volume of the low end to subsidize the cost of the high end until the volume/cost curve makes the high end product profitable. Since we are all using car metaphors, I will continue the trend.

If you go to as BMW dealership and expect to buy a 7 Series for the price of a 3 series, you are not thinking clearly.

If you go to a BMW dealership and expect a 3 series to come with all of the amenities and performance of a 7 series, you are not thinking clearly.

If however you do not understand the difference even after seriously reading all of the marketing materials and website information that BMW has put out, and trying to understand them, then BMW may not thinking clearly or at least communicating poorly.

In this case we have all three situations, IMHO. We have the Surface and Surface Pro, but most of the reviewers have lumped them together and compared them to the wrong benchmarks. Imagine Car and Driver doing a comparison of the best high end luxury sedans and including the 7 series versus the VW Passat and the Honda Fit. Never happens, but the Tech press in this country is inept at worst and biased as hell at best, so the brand of the day gets all of the positive press and other brands are ignored or mistreated in some cases and mis-reviewed in others. The reality is that the Surface is a value based selling proposition- it belongs in the Android Tablet and IPAD category. It is a 3 Series. The Pro is a unique beast. It is a LAPTOP/Tablet. It is a 7 series. And yes, you pay for convenience and size in tech, so it is correctly positioned with a premium over some basic tablets and basic laptops.

Now, the fact that MS has not corrected the reviewers or found a way to more clearly communicate these differences is something we can fault them for, again, IMHO.

However, value is very subjective. So this brings me to the point Oion makes- if you bought it, you valued it. PERIOD. I looked at all tablets and laptops and concluded that the S2P was best FOR ME. Others have done the same. Whether enough of us are out here for MS profit forecasts remains to be seen and none of us can judge MS without knowing their goals and objectives.

What needs to happen is for the tone of these discussions to change- just because you think I wasted my money does not give you license to call my intelligence or judgement into question. Especially if you are on this site daily trolling us. If you are here, and you are constantly complaining, than either you own one and you are having buyers remorse- return the device and move on. Or you do not own one and you get off on tweaking those who do- get a life and move on.

It's not that your opinions about the pricing aren't valid; it's that they're irrelevant. :)

While you let that sink in, I'll explain with a question:

"Is an Audi too expensive?"

You will answer "yes," and you'd be wrong. Your correct answer should have been "I can't afford it." Once you figure out the difference, the microeconomics of price-profit-value-supply-demand should become clear: You have no product rights. You don't need it. You don't deserve it. The purchase is a privilege. What's outlandish to you is merely you whining that you can't afford something. Others who can afford it and value something enough to pay the price become part of the microeconomic cycle, because the price matches the value at that point. Items priced at the upper tiers of whatever bell curve will naturally move slowly. However: Microsoft's Pro sales were positive and they had trouble keeping up with demand, just as they are with Pro 2. Therefore, looking at the supply-demand aspect, the Pro isn't too expensive. The RT line has far too many other variables involved to ever say only "the price is too high."

Then consider this: What sort of fool buys an Audi and then comes to the Audi forums to complain that the prices are too high and they should lower them to get more market share? That's not how it works. The smart consumer buys or doesn't buy and moves on. It's up to the company to decide how to proceed on the macro scale.

End-users like us shouldn't be obsessed about this sort of thing, only with how a purchase is performing to our needs/expectations. Everything else is gravy.
 

beman39

New Member
hahah first off onion please don't tell me what I can and cannot afford, and stop confusing with can't for WON'T, as I "Won't" buy an over priced device and if you want to delusionally justify your reasons for buying the over priced toy then go ahead and be my guest, but also don't start calling me a troll like t-bob here as I have never trolled these forums and always tried to help people and contribute to this forum one way or another and t-bob with a measly post count of 17 should have enough brains to look at my post history before opening his mouth and resort to name calling... wow I must of butt hurt you people to get your panties in a bunch because some of you feel threatened of your purchase decision of an over priced device that you have to resort to trying to insult me...anyways this is the last time I will post in here as I don't want it to escalate into some even more nasty than what I have observed in this thread... shame on you for insulting me for just having an OPINION which might not coincide with your views...but your replies don't justify themselves.
 

oion

Well-Known Member
hahah first off onion please don't tell me what I can and cannot afford, and stop confusing with can't for WON'T, as I "Won't" buy an over priced device

Your lack of logic is right up there with mitch's. Reread the part I underlined. The other side of smart consumerism is that when you buy something at a set price, you believe its value thus matches the price.

Just because you don't value a device at a set price ("it's not worth it"), doesn't mean others won't. Which is exactly why your opinion is irrelevant.
 

oion

Well-Known Member
I do agree with you oion but I've seen other arguments elsewhere stating that the 'reason' the Surface models are too expensive is because they're not developed. Apple products have always been expensive, people expect it...

But with Surface, Microsoft went in too high and thus haven't got the high number of sales they'd like. Of course, 'too high' is subjective, it obviously wasn't for me, otherwise I wouldn't have bought one. But I find if I show them to friends their instant reaction is, "Why would I buy that when I can get an Apple product for the same price?".

Whilst this isn't at all fair, it's the way the general public are feeling. Hopefully things will work out for Microsoft and the Surface will eventually become a big seller, and a worthy premium product that people understand is just as good (if not better) than the Apple products they're comparing it too. At the moment? I'm not too hopeful on that, we shall just have to wait and see I guess.

This is true, and this is why I keep pointing out that people absolutely cannot underestimate marketing on top of the hard specs, and the pundits adding fuel to the fire. This is entirely human psychology; branding is 100% human psychology, and I know this because I work for a brand. MS shot themselves in the foot so many times through piss-poor communication about the differences between WinRT/8, failing marketing 101 in the subjective "value sell," that it's too bad the product itself ended up the victim (because it's really not a bad product). But for all the failings in the first gen rollout, the second gen is a bit more hopeful because MS is finally figuring out marketing 101 and doing the "value sell" tack. We'll see, but I personally will just sit back and enjoy my Surface. It doesn't matter to me if what I use ends up having more share or not (I'm a hardcore Opera user, so that should tell you something). I mean, in the American market we're talking about people who buy ginormous SUVs to drive around downtown--not the smartest people to begin with when it comes to function. ;)
 

T-Bob

New Member
(Edited 11/14)
1. Never said you couldn't or could afford anything.
2. I am not "delusional".
3. I did not buy a "toy".
4. "troll?" ok I did IMPLY you might be a troll if you come here and bitch and haven't purchased a Surface yet. This was based on what I am reading in your latest posts.
5. "Post count?" So more equates with better and smarter. Did not know that. Note to self: post more in the future to become smarter.
6. "Brains?" So who is insulting whom now?
7." Panties?" Mine are pink and very comfortable- what color are yours? Seriously?
8. "Look at my post history" why? Will reading all 432 of them greatly enlighten me as to the nature of your latest posts? I think if you objectively re-read the exchanges between Oion and yourself you will be forced to consider the possibility that you and not he or I is upset and lashing out.
9. "Threatened of your purchase decision?" Oh dear you got me. I am shaking with fear. In fact if you hadn't pointed it out I might have gone on for years unaware that I was suffering from buyer's remorse. NOT.
10 "Insulting me" Did not insult you, unless you are taking offense to the troll comment. If you are not a troll I am truly sorry. I stand by the comment that your logic and latest posts seem troll-like.
11. "Nasty?" If me suggesting you are a troll is nasty, I again apologize. I have tried to reply with logic and common sense. Apparently that has only served to reveal my wadded panties and my lack of brains and that I do not post enough...

;-)

hahah first off onion please don't tell me what I can and cannot afford, and stop confusing with can't for WON'T, as I "Won't" buy an over priced device and if you want to delusionally justify your reasons for buying the over priced toy then go ahead and be my guest, but also don't start calling me a troll like t-bob here as I have never trolled these forums and always tried to help people and contribute to this forum one way or another and t-bob with a measly post count of 17 should have enough brains to look at my post history before opening his mouth and resort to name calling... wow I must of butt hurt you people to get your panties in a bunch because some of you feel threatened of your purchase decision of an over priced device that you have to resort to trying to insult me...anyways this is the last time I will post in here as I don't want it to escalate into some even more nasty than what I have observed in this thread... shame on you for insulting me for just having an OPINION which might not coincide with your views...but your replies don't justify themselves.
 
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CrippsCorner

Well-Known Member
baman39 your responses are coming in with an ounce of ignorance which is a shame as you started off with some valid points.

At the end of the day I'm sure most people on here feel like they could do a better job than the advertising team working for Microsoft!
 

zurface

New Member
Surface pro 2 owner here and I do not regret my purchase. In the end, the pro is a niche machine and a risky one. It's targeted at a much smaller audience of professional users and content creators rather than pure consumers. As such, it has features that I honestly can't find in any other device (the form factor, power, and active digitizer were enough to win me over, even at this price). I'll accept that a niche device is going to cost more than a mass market one.

That said, some of the decisions Microsoft has made just tick me off. Having only four configurations and paying a minimum of $1300 for 8GB RAM is brutal. No power cover until January is sloppy. Really expensive prices for peripherals that are central to the function of the (already expensive) device is painful. It's like the engineers at MS went and made an amazing device and the marketing guys just want to shit all over it.
 

Omni

Active Member
I genuinely don't think the Surface is over priced. If I had the money I would buy the Pro straight away as I believe it is worth it.
 

wseverino

Member
I agree that I definitely don't think the SP2 is over priced. I just bought the 512GB version the other day. I am replacing my Acer W700 which I absolutely love but I bought the SP2 for the extra performance and memory. Previous to my W700 I carried a laptop and an iPad. Now I carry just my W700 which runs all my work apps that I need such as our development tools, etc. I hated lugging my laptop, always had to keep it in standby mode cause it took for ever to boot up.
 

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