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Argh! So Disappointed With This Tablet

cali

Member
I think I get where the OP is going with this thread. I paid an arm and a leg for an earlier big name version of a laptop. Could have bought a functional used car for what I paid. Since that experience I figured out that I needed to do more planning with my purchases, and now don't sink that kind of money into something unless I have weighed the pros and cons and have come up with good reasoning. And I shy away from that particular big name brand; their products always cost more than the newer competition.
 

R0bR

Member
You clearly don't understand how corporate IT works. I am responsible for evaluating MICROSOFT software and hardware as viable option s for corporate. not tablets, not laptops but Microsoft products. using my logic, I WOULDN'T buy an ipad at 700.00 instead of a cheap laptop.
In order for a surface tablet to be a corporate option it needs:
1) the ability to be secure (bitlocker)
2) the ability to be managed by existing device management software, not mdm. sccm or domain gpo at least
3) the ability to vpn using current vpn technology (IPSEC or vpn client)
4) ms outlook (corporate standard)
5) not being able to be domain joined negates the ability to use directaccess.

now, with that being said, the surface pro seems like it may be a viable option. but, with a $1000.00 pricetag, it doesn't make financial sense to purchase the surface when there are and will be other tablet devices and/or laptops that run the intel processors and therefore windows 8 full version where all the requirements above can be met that are less expensive.

No I don't understand how Corporate IT works, why would I only working in IT for a global company for the past 16 years. Or perhaps you shouldn't just make assumptions.

The Surface RT is a consumer device not an enterprise device so for all the corporate requriements you list, although nice to have, have not been included. But then again which tablet on the market actually meets this criteria other than VPN? None, but iPads are still being used in the Enterprise.

From what I've read, you will be able to manage Surface RT for corporate use but it's through a cloud service, at least that's what Microsoft says. With Forefront UAG\TMG, Server 2012 and HyperV you can connect to the corporate network to RDC into servers from the Surface RT. As a matter of fact you could have a Windows 8 VM and make a VDI connection to it and get a full desktop experience as well to run real desktop applications. Paul Thurott has actually tested this to run Adobe CS and 3D software on his Surface RT.

I don't see Surface RT being anything but a companion device for the enterprise just like the iPad, and just like the iPad it is not a laptop replacement.

now, with that being said, the surface pro seems like it may be a viable option. but, with a $1000.00 pricetag, it doesn't make financial sense to purchase the surface when there are and will be other tablet devices and/or laptops that run the intel processors and therefore windows 8 full version where all the requirements above can be met that are less expensive.

As I said before, price wise it competes very well with other Ultrabooks\Hybrids\Convertibles on the market. Obviously there are cheaper laptops available, a $499 laptop is not going to have the same protability, touch screen, performance or whatever and shouldn't be compared.

if a device has more applications, more ways to accomplish different things, then it can, in fact, do more. it isn't the hardware that does things, its the software. The iPad does not do less than the surface. by virtue of having more applications, it DOES more.

Huh? You basically agreed with my 5 points that the Surface can do and the other tablets or at least the iPad cannot and that is not doing more? Your gripe is that the Surface doesn't have enough Apps, that's all.
 

MSurfaceWA

New Member
Mbergin, you are going around in circles. If you are evaluating the current tabs (iOS vs. Android vs. RT) for any type of corporate use, the Surface most certainly comes out on top, for virtue of its inclusion of Microsoft Office alone. The others have no real alternative to the most commonly used business applications - Word, Powerpoint, & Excel. And, you get those applications at no cost. For most people having office on a tab with a real useable keyboard would win hands down, it did for me.

As far as cost, you keep talking about $700, but that gets you a tab with 64 gb of memory, a usable keyboard, built-in Microsoft office, Sd card reader, USB port, and a built-in HDMI out port. The 64 gb iPad is the same price, has a retina screen, but lacks a keyboard, Office (you have to purchase apple's suite which lacks in functionality), no SD card reader, no USB, and no HDMI out. All those extra technology hardware bits add to the cost. I think you have to compare apples to apples so to speak on the price.

Finally, with apps keep the timing in perspective. It took both iOS and Android time to get their app count up, as it would any other brand new platform that comes out. The good news is that Microsoft has a lot of support behind it.

There are other things to mention where I think the Surface comes out on top (flash capable browser, not being tied to iTunes, true 16:9 screen for movies, etc...) but everyone has to judge by their own needs. In my opinion, the surface is the best option for a play /work tab than any other on the market.
 
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Hans

New Member
And regular VPN using PPTP and SSTP protocols works just fine for me. Just like in Android, you set up a direct connection to each server and then start or stop them as needed.

The Surface Pro will be heavier, doesn't include Office, and has much shorter battery life. Not a good option unless the RT doesn't do everything you need.
 

Bergman

New Member
As others have stated this thread is pointless and at this point the OP is simply babbling on to incite an argument. If you were truly a corporate IT person worth anything you would understand this device, and how to make it work very easily in a corporate setting. As others have pointed out numerous times it is a CONSUMER targeted device, but even with that you are totally misguided in most of your assumptions. For the record, my iPad 3 is now relegated to a mere gaming machine since after years trying to make that work as a corporate use device I simply gave up. I use my Surface for work all the time and can easily run Outlook mail and other corporate apps. VPN access is living in the 80s and should not be needed so that argument is pointless.
The bottom line is this device is a consumer consumption device that gives us corporate usability. If you do not understand that, this is not for you. Go back to your 5 pound Windows 7 laptop with 3 hour battery life and VPN access along with a second tablet device where there are 50 thousand crap apps. This is old technology that is unnecessary. My Surface does corporate IT easily, and the ability to join a domain is such a weak argument it does not deserve my time responding. If you do your research like you said you do, you would easily understand why I say that.
 
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rcsrhr

New Member
MB … in some ways this thread seems more about debate for debate's sake. You seem to be pretty well settled that Surface RT is priced too high, and that it does not tick enough corporate governance boxes to be viable in that space. I agree, depending on the policies in place, the Surface RT may not be configurable to fit the policies in an organization.

This is the same for IOS and Android devices as well.

All of these environments are about tradeoff's and I can't personally replace my laptop with any of them. I work with people that typically travel frequently, carry a company laptop, plus a personal iPhone and iPad. This is a sizable group of people and they work for companies of all sizes. I've had an iPad since they first came out (3rd gen now) and I love it.

But if there is something it doesn't do or doesn't do easily enough to be worth the effort, then I just don't do it. The things that it does do, along with the easy portability, constant connectivity to the internet, and always being on, are enough reason to carry it. Over time, it has continued to become more functional, and because so many people have them, our IT department has become increasingly supportive of their use. I'd estimate that it can do about 30-40% of what I use my laptop for. I don't think this type of usage is uncommon at all, and it's something I see a lot while working with other companies, which is essentially what I do for a living. It's in the company's interest for mobile employees to be productive when they are not in the office.

I have a Surface RT and it does about 60-70% of what I use my laptop for. More than my iPad, but still a tradeoff. It is just as portable and convenient as the iPad, so that gives me more times when I can do something quickly, where in the past I'd have to wait until I could use my laptop.

I use my phone as an internet connection for both my iPad and the Surface. The lack of 3G-4G on the Surface isn't a problem. I use my iPhone for GPS, taking decent photos, and voice recognition. The iPad is great at all three, but I never use it that way, and so don't miss any of it on the Surface.

I want to say something about the desktop on the Surface and the way it supports Office because this has been so maligned….

It's about workflow. The iPad has solutions for working with office documents and they all involve, cut down apps, format incompatibilities, jump through loops file management, and difficult integration (like using Excel charts in PowerPoint Presentations). I really wanted this to work, but the hassle factor for me has never been worth it. Some people manage, but the workflow is too unwieldy. Call me lazy, but the reason for a tablet is about making some things easier, not replacing my laptop.

With the Surface, if I need to make a 5 minute edit to a PowerPoint presentation and make that available to Marketing… I open the presentation from SharePoint directly into PowerPoint, make the edit, and save. It is saved back to SharePoint and shared. The file system and windows explorer makes this workflow possible. The MS Office applications are exactly what I use on my laptop and for this use case I'm pretty happy they are. I don't like doing it this much …. The keyboard touch cover, the little screen, but the point is that I can and the 5 minute edit takes 5 minutes. Before with my iPad in tow, it was either wait if I could, or find a place to break out my laptop and spend at least 20 minutes of unpacking and setup, then doing 5 minutes of work. This ability alone makes the Surface worth more to my company than $700.

The Surface Pro will be much more like a normal laptop, but there are a couple of reasons why I think RT is still better for me.

- Battery Life. For me the whole point is convenience and portability, as soon as I have to be topping up the charge all the time, it starts going into laptop land.
- The screen. The higher resolution screen is going to make the UI of a lot of legacy apps very tiny. I think that the RT screen is gorgeous for tablet Apps, and it's about right when I have to be in the desktop.
- I don't think 64 or even 128 GB is really enough space for the kind of legacy apps that I'd want to use… Visual studio, Eclipse, full Photoshop, AutoCad, VMWare. All of these Apps work as if you have all the disk space on earth.
- More susceptible to malware than ARM. I like not having to worry about locking tablets down so much.
- I'd have to treat it as a full PC with the IT staff rather than a "Bring your own personal device".

You COULD use the Surface Pro as a laptop replacement with a docking station for a regular mouse and keyboard, plus an external monitor. For workers in an office that want a tablet to carry around the office for meetings, for occasional travel, and as a take home device, it could well be worth the $1,000.
 
OP
M

Mbergin

New Member
I use my Surface for work all the time and can easily run Outlook mail and other corporate apps. VPN access is living in the 80s and should not be needed so that argument is pointless.
The bottom line is this device is a consumer consumption device that gives us corporate usability. If you do not understand that, this is not for you. Go back to your 5 pound Windows 7 laptop with 3 hour battery life and VPN access along with a second tablet device where there are 50 thousand crap apps. This is old technology that is unnecessary. My Surface does corporate IT easily, and the ability to join a domain is such a weak argument it does not deserve my time responding. .

You have no idea what you are talking about. How is VPN in the 80's?!?! Every corporate company utilizes VPN, unless your mom and pop shop just does NAT to get inside. Microsoft JUST developed their own VPN solution. doesn't sound like a dying technology to me.
As for domain joined, please explain to me how that is weak? I would love to gain knowledge from someone of your IT caliber.
And you cannot run outlook mail from the Surface RT as outlook is not part of the office package included.
 

TeknoBlast

Active Member
And this is the guy that will decide if the Surface is worth purchasing for the company? Dismiss this guy already.
 
OP
M

Mbergin

New Member
Rcsrhr,
I can see how the Surface can augment your corporate computer much better than the other tablet devices. And, I guess you are right, if a company was going to purchase an employee a laptop as well as a tablet, this would be the way to go. It is difficult to compare this Surface to another tablet because the other tablets have been around and had time to work with vendors to get productive apps written (of course, not really apps for corp productivity!). I was hoping that the Surface would be released and be the iPad killer. I wanted the Surface to blow away the competition out of the box, but I am seeing that that probably can't happen until the apps are on par with other tablets. Corporations won't purchase a second device for employees to augment the primary device they have that can do %100 of the work they need (though may be bulky) and consumers (who aren't IT folks) will probably not purchase the Surface because of the lack of applications that are available for it. I think that is my disappointment, if that makes sense...?
 
OP
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Mbergin

New Member
And this is the guy that will decide if the Surface is worth purchasing for the company? Dismiss this guy already.

seriously? you have provided absolutely no content to this discussion other than being able to watch sweet videos. shouldn't you be in school right now?
 

K4ot1K

New Member
Mbergin, I can't go into detail since I am waiting for my Surface to arrive. So I don't have the hands on. However, you are asking how it is better. Coming from someone that also ordered one knowing the limitations that have been listed. I would say (and I am a bit biased, since I can't stand Apple), does the iPad integrate with XBOX 360? Does iPads or Android devices have FULL Smart Glass functionality? Being that someone like me has NOTHING from Apple, no hardware, no software, what else would I choose? Granted, I ordered the Surface to integrate with my 360, and to use XBOX music. I plan to use it for much more, but these are my two mian reasons. This is how it is better. Almost every review ignores the XBOX connection, and I don't know why. I bought the XBOX as a front-end media server and the Surface is a perfect addition to it. Nothing else on the market can compete with that.
 
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Mbergin

New Member
Hey K4, how does the Surface interact with the xbox? I have smart glass on the surface and did connect to the xbox, but I didn't see much functionality out of the gate.... I did a quick bing search and didn't find too many details.
 

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