dniezby
Member
I agree with much you have said but THIS quote I agree with 150%. Except for Office I don't use ANY desktop programs. I always search for MUI alternatives and I HAVE been able to find suitable alternatives (most of the time).
Why does the Surface Pro 3 get a bad rap in the media? My take.
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I agree with much you have said but THIS quote I agree with 150%. Except for Office I don't use ANY desktop programs. I always search for MUI alternatives and I HAVE been able to find suitable alternatives (most of the time).
raqball
Active Member
I have a mid 2014 rMBP and there are plenty of apps available in the Mac store. I actually think there are more available than on the Windows store.. The Mac apps do cost quite a bit more however..
Nuspieds
Active Member
Uggh! I wish I could disagree and say this doesn't tend to happen, but it does!
You want another example? Amazon!!! I frequently access my Order History, for example, and when I log into the web and click on "My Account," I am presented with a plethora of Account-management options. Do this on the MUI app and you end up thinking that maybe you selected the wrong item because the list of options do not even closely resemble what is presented to you on the web. Moreover, of the current 4 MUI Account options, 2 open up a snapped IE window!
Believe it or not, it used to be worse and what they now seem to be doing is adding web container objects into the MUI application. Though that's not ideal and--to me--counterintuitive to the rest of the MUI parts of the application, at least they are improving it and making it more functional; one can only hope that eventually the web containers will be replaced with true MUI objects.
In the meantime, though, if I'm forced to switch to the web version for common functionality that I use frequently, then what's the point of using the MUI version? In the case of Amazon, I don't use it at all; I keep it for the sake of checking on it to see if/how it has improved to the point where I can use it.
Bandito
Active Member
I think where MS missed the boat and brought on quite a bit of their bad reputation was by trying to make touch the central focus of their next generation offering, Windows 8. For a tablet and a phone, touch makes perfect sense, but for a desktop/laptop it just doesn't really add up to a balanced equation. You're simply offering a third method of interacting with the computer, but one that is typically quite awkward with a device, the screen, in a fixed position. People took a long time to get comfortable with both a keyboard and a mouse and now that they are, it will take a very significant improvement in a computer's user interface to make them feel the need for a change and the desire to adopt a new model and touch just didn't exceed this threshold. I think that this is evidenced by the lack of standalone monitors that support touch. There simply is no demand for them.
MS appears to have not really done very much analysis before hanging their hat on touch. They saw tablets take off and assumed that the reason that everyone wanted one was because of touch. To an extent, that was true, but I think what really attracted people to tablets was their simplicity and intuitiveness. The vast majority of people will only do one thing at a time on a computer. They'll look at email, then do some Internet browsing, a bit of social media, and maybe a bit of gaming. None of those interactions are improved by having a complex yet extremely flexible platform like Windows. Tablets, for the most part have eliminated the complexity that has always been at Windows core. Yes, Windows will do everything that you can think of and more, but most folks don't do this. They don't understand computers that well and only want a simple interaction.
For example, let's use email. Most people understand how to type in their email address and password, just like they do if accessing email in a browser. So, on a tablet you pick settings, email, and then the tablet asks you for your email address and password and then essentially configures itself. From there on out, you touch the email icon and off you go. Windows, on the other hand, still presents you with myriad options when setting up an email account, most of which people don't have the slightest clue about, nor do they care or desire to learn about them. MS Office has a similar bent. It is extremely powerful and will do most everything that you can imagine doing with it. And if it hasn't yet been thought of, it's extensible, so you can add a new function by simply doing a bit of programming. So, MS Office has all this power going for it, but most users barely venture beyond changing a font style or the font itself. The vast majority of users have probably never even inserted a picture into their documents nor do they really want to.
MS's path over the years has been to add functionality and capability to both Windows and Office to make them do everything that they possibly can. For power users and the tech-savvy user, this is fabulous; however, for the casual user which makes up the majority of their user base, it is unwanted and unused complexity.
Everyone panned and laughed when MS came out with Bob, but it was an attempt to reach out to the casual user and to try to make them feel more comfortable and at home with using a computer. While it may not have been the best method to do this, I think that it was a move in the right direction. MS should either develop a light and simple Windows OS for the masses that keeps the complexity way down and a more flexible power-user version for the rest of us or they should work very diligently to hide the complexity of Windows from the casual user, but still let the power users open the hood and tinker with what's inside.
So, how does this relate to the SP3? Well, the SP3 is kind of stuck straddling both worlds, PC and tablet, and doesn't quite measure up in either one. I think that it does fairly well as a laptop, but if you try to run legacy desktop software on it using touch at all, you're left with a very finicky and difficult to operate Windows controls. It has a lot of potential as a tablet, but is left wanting by a lack of apps and by the generally poor apps that do exist. Here again--on the tablet side--we're faced with the chicken-and-egg scenario. Which comes first? The users or the apps? In this case, we're not getting a lot of apps because the demand just isn't there. Most users aren't using touch on the desktop/laptop side, so there's little incentive to update apps. The SP3 (and 2 and 1) are, for the most part, the only real audience for MUI apps and there aren't yet enough of us to make a significant change in app demand. Even MS is not in any hurry to port MS Office to touch because there isn't a lot of demand and the software won 't really benefit nor does it lend itself to a touch interface.
Finally, when MS introduced the SP3 and it still had some fundamental problems that not just one or two journalists encountered, but pretty much all of them did, they really shot themselves in the foot. And that's a whole lot of baggage to overcome with one "it continues to get better" product.
That's how I see it at any rate. Aren't you sorry that you asked?
MS appears to have not really done very much analysis before hanging their hat on touch. They saw tablets take off and assumed that the reason that everyone wanted one was because of touch. To an extent, that was true, but I think what really attracted people to tablets was their simplicity and intuitiveness. The vast majority of people will only do one thing at a time on a computer. They'll look at email, then do some Internet browsing, a bit of social media, and maybe a bit of gaming. None of those interactions are improved by having a complex yet extremely flexible platform like Windows. Tablets, for the most part have eliminated the complexity that has always been at Windows core. Yes, Windows will do everything that you can think of and more, but most folks don't do this. They don't understand computers that well and only want a simple interaction.
For example, let's use email. Most people understand how to type in their email address and password, just like they do if accessing email in a browser. So, on a tablet you pick settings, email, and then the tablet asks you for your email address and password and then essentially configures itself. From there on out, you touch the email icon and off you go. Windows, on the other hand, still presents you with myriad options when setting up an email account, most of which people don't have the slightest clue about, nor do they care or desire to learn about them. MS Office has a similar bent. It is extremely powerful and will do most everything that you can imagine doing with it. And if it hasn't yet been thought of, it's extensible, so you can add a new function by simply doing a bit of programming. So, MS Office has all this power going for it, but most users barely venture beyond changing a font style or the font itself. The vast majority of users have probably never even inserted a picture into their documents nor do they really want to.
MS's path over the years has been to add functionality and capability to both Windows and Office to make them do everything that they possibly can. For power users and the tech-savvy user, this is fabulous; however, for the casual user which makes up the majority of their user base, it is unwanted and unused complexity.
Everyone panned and laughed when MS came out with Bob, but it was an attempt to reach out to the casual user and to try to make them feel more comfortable and at home with using a computer. While it may not have been the best method to do this, I think that it was a move in the right direction. MS should either develop a light and simple Windows OS for the masses that keeps the complexity way down and a more flexible power-user version for the rest of us or they should work very diligently to hide the complexity of Windows from the casual user, but still let the power users open the hood and tinker with what's inside.
So, how does this relate to the SP3? Well, the SP3 is kind of stuck straddling both worlds, PC and tablet, and doesn't quite measure up in either one. I think that it does fairly well as a laptop, but if you try to run legacy desktop software on it using touch at all, you're left with a very finicky and difficult to operate Windows controls. It has a lot of potential as a tablet, but is left wanting by a lack of apps and by the generally poor apps that do exist. Here again--on the tablet side--we're faced with the chicken-and-egg scenario. Which comes first? The users or the apps? In this case, we're not getting a lot of apps because the demand just isn't there. Most users aren't using touch on the desktop/laptop side, so there's little incentive to update apps. The SP3 (and 2 and 1) are, for the most part, the only real audience for MUI apps and there aren't yet enough of us to make a significant change in app demand. Even MS is not in any hurry to port MS Office to touch because there isn't a lot of demand and the software won 't really benefit nor does it lend itself to a touch interface.
Finally, when MS introduced the SP3 and it still had some fundamental problems that not just one or two journalists encountered, but pretty much all of them did, they really shot themselves in the foot. And that's a whole lot of baggage to overcome with one "it continues to get better" product.
That's how I see it at any rate. Aren't you sorry that you asked?
Nuspieds
Active Member
After I seeing what they did to the Ribbon interface across the Office 2013 apps, that's how I figured they would MUI-enable them. I don't expect (and wouldn't want) a different, watered-down version of any Office app.
Though the current Ribbon interfaces for the Office 2013 apps are not fully touch-friendly, they were certainly "cleaned up" to make them more so and that's what I see as their possible path to MUI-enabling Office. Based on how these apps look and function now, I can definitely see them further touch-optimizing the menus so that you can do basic and simple tasks via touch. Enabling the additional menu options will then provide you with the features you typically use in Desktop mode.
Nuspieds
Active Member
It wasn't the end of the word for me when the Start button was removed and my workaround was to pin additional apps to the Taskbar and make use of that great Search feature for the less-frequently apps I didn't pin.
However, until they fix MUI to add folder structure/nesting capabilities, I will not be a fan of the Start Screen. How in the world they left that capability out--not just from the Start Screen but also the original MUI IE--is completely baffling! I am really not a fan of scrolling and scrolling horizontally to access my apps; this, to me, is big step backward from the Start Button functionality and it needs to be addressed.
I think people just don't know what it really is. Try to use it like an iPad then ding it for not being easy to use. Use it like a laptop, you need the type cover. Ive got two friends that went from the iPad to the sp3 after they saw mine.
One tried to use the iPad as a laptop replacement. His laptop died. He said I hit the limitations of ios really fast, and the surface just works. Although he does say its heavy for reading while lying down in bed.
The other convert tried to use the iPad with accessories for school. He said it failed for him. Felt clunkie. The sp3 also just works for him, also with light gaming. Likes the fact one note is backed up to the cloud.
Those two love the flexibility the surface offers. Also the battery life is great and the 10sec start up is nice.
Two of my coworkers scoffed at my sp3. Saying that its crap and won't work because it runs Microsoft. But they are illiterate apple users. Sure they carry a iPad and MBA, I don't think they like the fact that my surface can run anything I throw at it so far. This is including Photoshop, and world of tanks in down time with out plugging in. Then again they are also jealous of my android phone that does everything, while they say they don't need to do that with a phone.
One tried to use the iPad as a laptop replacement. His laptop died. He said I hit the limitations of ios really fast, and the surface just works. Although he does say its heavy for reading while lying down in bed.
The other convert tried to use the iPad with accessories for school. He said it failed for him. Felt clunkie. The sp3 also just works for him, also with light gaming. Likes the fact one note is backed up to the cloud.
Those two love the flexibility the surface offers. Also the battery life is great and the 10sec start up is nice.
Two of my coworkers scoffed at my sp3. Saying that its crap and won't work because it runs Microsoft. But they are illiterate apple users. Sure they carry a iPad and MBA, I don't think they like the fact that my surface can run anything I throw at it so far. This is including Photoshop, and world of tanks in down time with out plugging in. Then again they are also jealous of my android phone that does everything, while they say they don't need to do that with a phone.
InspectHerGadget
Active Member
I think the fact it is being shit on in the media and bad mouthed is a sign of success.
The bigger the turd dropped, the bigger the splash the product is making...
The bigger the turd dropped, the bigger the splash the product is making...
iLLeStEyECoN
Member
Just remind them that there is only one operating system that has stood as number one for the last several decades. There's a reason for that. Every other division of technology has had massive hierarchical shifts, except for the desktop and enterprise operating systems.
InspectHerGadget
Active Member
When there is serious work to be done, you use Windows although Mac OS X is nicely polished, it doesn't do as much.
Tablet OS is for play and communications and Windows is incorporating that into the desktop.
The Surface Pro 3 is the showcase technology that bridges a serious work tool with play.
VickiFL
Active Member
Exactly! If people hate it so much, why does everyone look at it when I'm using it while I'm out? <---rhetorical question.
callihan_44
Member
I didn't see this posted but....my gf is a elementary school administrator and the entire school system is nothing but macs and ipads, Ive asked those in charge why not go with surface pro with the pen ability? seems more logical to use the pen in a learning environment and the response I got was basically it would be a hassle to switch and they have so much invested already. I demonstrated what could be done with the surface pro and they agreed it would be better for students....I also got the impression the people making these decisions aren't exactly tech savvy which I find astounding.
