Thoughts for the next generation dock

[markusbeutel]

My understanding based on Panos' statements is that it didn't provide a quality experience and added too much weight if it was to prevent tipping.... keyboard docks are not eloquent and mess with the esthetics of the device. There are many Two and Ones on the market.... none are selling as well as the SP3....

I don't buy the quality statement - that's bs, it's all about keeping it thin and light, as that's what the Apple crowd that MS is trying to woo away, cares about. Second part of your statement is totally subjective. My core m Dell Venue 11 Pro has an amazing mechanical keyboard dock - does it add weight? yeah, and also a ton of functionality, not to mention an embedded battery that doubles battery life. Don't see how that's not a quality experience...

As for OEM 2 in 1's not selling as well, well there's an obvious answer for that: $. How many terrible tunes has MS now released for the SP3? Not to mention the NFL marketing blitz. Take the entire Surface lineup as a whole, (all of the discounted SP1's and SP2's and RTs), and I wouldn't be surprised if it's made less money than every single 2 in 1 alternative on the market that doesn't have a billion dollar advertising campaign and money to burn.

 

[jnjroach]

I don't buy the quality statement - that's bs, it's all about keeping it thin and light, as that's what the Apple crowd that MS is trying to woo away, cares about. Second part of your statement is totally subjective. My core m Dell Venue 11 Pro has an amazing mechanical keyboard dock - does it add weight? yeah, and also a ton of functionality, not to mention an embedded battery that doubles battery life. Don't see how that's not a quality experience...

As for OEM 2 in 1's not selling as well, well there's an obvious answer for that: $. How many terrible tunes has MS now released for the SP3? Not to mention the NFL marketing blitz. Take the entire Surface lineup as a whole, (all of the discounted SP1's and SP2's and RTs), and I wouldn't be surprised if it's made less money than every single 2 in 1 alternative on the market that doesn't have a billion dollar advertising campaign and money to burn.

Microsoft has heavily pushed the Lenovo Yoga Line with adds going up against the MBA just like the SP3. The Surface Team runs its own Marketing and Promotional Budget and makes their own deals, the other OEMs are able to do this as well...

The Surface Team is treated like an OEM by the other teams at Microsoft.

As far as the keyboard docks, they have all struggled with bulk and questionable docking and tend to feel less than premium. The Surface Pro 3 is a vision from one team at Microsoft and this team is going to create products that fit into that vision and honestly to them if a consumer wants a keyboard dock the would gladly point you to a Dell, HP, ASUS, Acer or Lenovo 2 and 1.

For the most part, the 2 and 1s make crappy tablets and eh? Ultrabooks, most people will opt for the Yoga or a traditional Ultrabook....

 

[markusbeutel]

Microsoft has heavily pushed the Lenovo Yoga Line with adds going up against the MBA just like the SP3. The Surface Team runs its own Marketing and Promotional Budget and makes their own deals, the other OEMs are able to do this as well...

The Surface Team is treated like an OEM by the other teams at Microsoft.

As far as the keyboard docks, they have all struggled with bulk and questionable docking and tend to feel less than premium. The Surface Pro 3 is a vision from one team at Microsoft and this team is going to create products that fit into that vision and honestly to them if a consumer wants a keyboard dock the would gladly point you to a Dell, HP, ASUS, Acer or Lenovo 2 and 1.

For the most part, the 2 and 1s make crappy tablets and eh? Ultrabooks, most people will opt for the Yoga or a traditional Ultrabook....

You can't seriously compare the Lenovo and SP3 ad budgets... How many millions were spent on the NFL deal? Or that holiday song that looped constantly over the holidays? Totally different tiers of promotion - if anything, Lenovo's Yoga 3 Pro got some scraps after the fact. And again, your post is filled with subjective opinion. Here's mine: the SP3 keyboard is an overpriced, piece of shit. See how easy these opinions are to throw around? It's kind of funny how we're like on different wavelengths, as I've pretty much heartily disagreed with every single one of your posts since joining this site - but as a mod, less subjective opinions in lieu of actual facts would be nice.

 

[zhenya]

I don't know about this site, but most sites allow mods to be regular members first, mods second, so long as they follow the site rules like everyone else.

You may not like the answer, and in fact I kind of agree with you that as an option Microsoft should offer a better keyboard, but I think Jeff is probably on the right track regarding respective budgets. You specifically may have run across a number of Surface ads, but I would suspect they are extremely localized in the United States. Lenovo has huge advertising all over the world, and the Yoga line in particular is plastered on huge billboards at many airports I've been in recently around the world. I haven't seen any mention of the Surface outside the US.

Frankly, for what it is intended to do, the Surface keyboard is pretty fantastic. If the keyboard is your primary concern in a device, this probably isn't the one for you. There are tons of other devices from laptops to convertibles to tablets that have good keyboards. There isn't another device on the market that puts a usable keyboard in a package that adds so little bulk to a tablet as the SP3 keyboard. It's entirely unique.

 

[jnjroach]

You can't seriously compare the Lenovo and SP3 ad budgets... How many millions were spent on the NFL deal? Or that holiday song that looped constantly over the holidays? Totally different tiers of promotion - if anything, Lenovo's Yoga 3 Pro got some scraps after the fact. And again, your post is filled with subjective opinion. Here's mine: the SP3 keyboard is an overpriced, piece of shit. See how easy these opinions are to throw around? It's kind of funny how we're like on different wavelengths, as I've pretty much heartily disagreed with every single one of your posts since joining this site - but as a mod, less subjective opinions in lieu of actual facts would be nice.

What I have said, is the information that the lead of Surface Team (Panos Panay) has publically spoke and what I have experienced through using a wide range of products. I have used Tablet PCs since 2003 exclusively and have owned a wide range of form factors and from many OEMs (Toshiba Portege M205, M400, Fujitsu Stylistic ST5115, Fujitsu U810, Lenovo/IBM ThinkPad X61T, X200T, X201T, X220T, HP Slate 500, Toshiba Libretto L105, Samsung 700T, Dell Venue Pro 8, Surface RT, Surface 2, Surface Pro 2, and Surface Pro 3) and I have tested and evaluated for customers many more (Motion, ASUS, Acer, TabletKiosk, NEC, Panasonic) and I have deployed 1000s of Tablets across many organizations....so yes they are my opinions but they are based on experience and preference. The Surface Pro 3 is my far the best Tablet PC ever made and for me the best experience using a Tablet PC.

You can disagree, I have no issues with that...you do need to calm down a bit though as you're starting to drift towards personal attacks, and that is when I will need to put on my Mod Hat, so let's agree to disagree or stick with a civil discussion.

 

[markusbeutel]

I don't know about this site, but most sites allow mods to be regular members first, mods second, so long as they follow the site rules like everyone else.

You may not like the answer, and in fact I kind of agree with you that as an option Microsoft should offer a better keyboard, but I think Jeff is probably on the right track regarding respective budgets. You specifically may have run across a number of Surface ads, but I would suspect they are extremely localized in the United States. Lenovo has huge advertising all over the world, and the Yoga line in particular is plastered on huge billboards at many airports I've been in recently around the world. I haven't seen any mention of the Surface outside the US.

Frankly, for what it is intended to do, the Surface keyboard is pretty fantastic. If the keyboard is your primary concern in a device, this probably isn't the one for you. There are tons of other devices from laptops to convertibles to tablets that have good keyboards. There isn't another device on the market that puts a usable keyboard in a package that adds so little bulk to a tablet as the SP3 keyboard. It's entirely unique.

It's not unique, actually. Decent amount of copycats out there now - just go to Best Buy and check out the HP Envy X2, which pretty much has a carbon copy of the typecover. And that's kind of an issue I'm seeing lately with Windows users - whereas like Apple users, they're oblivious to what else is out there. True, a few years back, hybid devices were clunky, but times change, and now, there's a ton of viable OEM devices that offer, imo, a superior overall mobile experience. Hopefully CES in a few days opens some eyes.

 

[hughlle]

You may not like the answer, and in fact I kind of agree with you that as an option Microsoft should offer a better keyboard, but I think Jeff is probably on the right track regarding respective budgets. You specifically may have run across a number of Surface ads, but I would suspect they are extremely localized in the United States. Lenovo has huge advertising all over the world, and the Yoga line in particular is plastered on huge billboards at many airports I've been in recently around the world. I haven't seen any mention of the Surface outside the US.

Don't kid yourself. There is mass advertising outside of the USA for the SP3. Heck, i've encountered a good 100m of straight SP3 advertising while out and about at home.

 

[ptrkhh]

I wish they would release the laptop dock along with the Type Cover and Touch Cover, with the laptop dock being the most advanced, most expensive option to replace the Power Cover:
1. Docking station-like ports
2. Secondary battery
3. HDD
4. dGPU! What else?

The thing is, Power Cover is too bulky as a cover. Heck, the Type Cover is borderline obese already as a cover. For that weight and functionality, a laptop dock would make more sense than the Power Cover.
The whole lienup does make perfect sense IMO, sitting side by side with the Type and Touch Cover, that would give everyone a product that suits their needs (and a reason for MS to not including those accessories).

 

[zhenya]

It's not unique, actually. Decent amount of copycats out there now - just go to Best Buy and check out the HP Envy X2, which pretty much has a carbon copy of the typecover. And that's kind of an issue I'm seeing lately with Windows users - whereas like Apple users, they're oblivious to what else is out there. True, a few years back, hybid devices were clunky, but times change, and now, there's a ton of viable OEM devices that offer, imo, a superior overall mobile experience. Hopefully CES in a few days opens some eyes.

Still drifting towards those personal attacks, eh?

You fail to mention that that knock-off keyboard weighs almost exactly TWICE what the SP3's type cover does.
That's exactly the point. This is a decent keyboard that feels and acts an awful lot like a basic cover.

 

[zhenya]

Don't kid yourself. There is mass advertising outside of the USA for the SP3. Heck, i've encountered a good 100m of straight SP3 advertising while out and about at home.

I did not mean to imply that there was no advertising elsewhere - merely that Lenovo has a hardware presence that is truly global in a way I haven't begun to see Microsoft approach yet with the SP3.

 

[markusbeutel]

Still drifting towards those personal attacks, eh?

You fail to mention that that knock-off keyboard weighs almost exactly TWICE what the SP3's type cover does.
That's exactly the point. This is a decent keyboard that feels and acts an awful lot like a basic cover.

That's because the Envy X2 comes in 13.3 and 15.6 inch sizes - obviously it'll be a bit heavier. I also failed to mention it has a superior trackpad, key travel, materials used (leather), and that it's magnetic, not just at the base, but so it stays shut when closed. Oh and it's got a better kickstand as well, but that's just my opinion.

 

[zhenya]

That's great. We've already agreed that the option of a better keyboard would be a nice thing to have with this device. For me though, the important thing about the current one is that it's like having a simple, minimalist screen cover that I'd want on the device anyways, but it's ALSO a passable keyboard.

I think HP missed the biggest refinement Microsoft made in that the new cover no longer sits flat on the desk. Snapping it up at an angle makes a huge difference to the feel of this keyboard IMO.